Topic: Newbie GM and players looking for some advice

[Charlie Four]

Hi there! I'm planning to get some friends hooked with RPGs, but it's been a long time since I GMed at a table, I did run some sessions with MERP back when I was 13/14 years old, but that was over 10 years ago so I'm starting over with HARP. I did run a campaign by forum, but it's not the same thing. The players don't know anything about pen and paper RPGs
.

So, I'm looking for general advise, since the last time I was 14 and tried to create characters with RMFRP and we all ended up overwhelmed by the character creation system. I know that HARP is A LOT simpler, but I want to avoid repeating the same mistake of not being prepared this time.

- Which level do you suggest I get the PCs started?

I'm thinking the lower the level, the more chances of dying for being careless or being a little frustrated by the difficulties of action, but the higher the longer it's going to take to create the characters. I created a Human Sylvan Ranger to test the system but it seemed a little underpowered at lvl 1, at least compared to RM ones. To be fair I bought two talents(Speed Loader and Survivalist) so I guess it's a little too much to ask to have a spell too. The guy ended up with +50 at bows(good enough), +65 at Tracking, +40 at Perception, but almost everything else at 40 or below. .In a system where the standard difficulty is +0 and you have to overcome 100, the odds to succeed at something aren't great. Considering there's going to be at most 3 players, that's not so great(in a 5 guys party I wouldn't mind).

So I'm thinking starting at lvl 2-3. Is there something wrong with my reasoning? I know lvl 1 aren't supposed to be great, but I expected a little more(maybe because in RMFRP the characters gained a big bonus at lvl 1 instead of a +X every X levels). Since I want to get them hooked, I don't want the first game to be frustrating, I can try for more grittiness once they adjusted.

Also, as a minor complaint, while I found the organization of the book fine for beginners, having the Armor penalties in the Combat section was a bit impractical, you would expect first 7 chapters to have everything you need.

- Balance in professions:

How beneficial/prejudicial is having more or less Favored Categories in the long run? I'm thinking about the Fighter who is almost exclusively combat/physical oriented, in the long run I imagine every single one of them ending up multiclassed, which is not great in my book.

Also, in a Fighter vs Monk related bussiness, the Monk can attack multiple times per round from the very beginning, isn't that a little too beneficial?

- Encounters and such. How difficult should they be?

So, as a final question(sorry for the long post), how can I tell how the group will be able to handle different monsters, based by the OB, DB, attacks? Especially considering it's a group of people new to RPGs, I don't want to end up TPKing them all in an unbalanced encounter. And my experience with MERP/RM is that a bad roll can hurt A LOT if they don't Parry. What should I watch out for?

Thanks a lot in advance, sorry for my awkward english and please don't take my insecurities as a critique to the game, I love it and think it's a vast improvement from anything ICE has done before. I just want to screw up as little as I can in my first session.

[Bruce]

You are correct in that 1st level does suck in HARP. When starting new games I have had players ask if they could start at 2nd level...lol.
Honestly though, I would stick with first level characters. Have a decent good first session and level them up to 2nd level after that session. This way the group can get used to how important it is to parry and to also not rush into a fight in the game. Also stress fate points and that you only get 3 per level.
I usually help new players create their 1st characters if not create them for them. I also stress a training package at 1st level, which can help alleviate the pain of having low skill bonuses.

As far as the extra attacks a monk gets, it isn't as awesome as it sounds (especially at the lower levels). They get a -20 per attack then another -20 for each opponent. Combine those modifiers with the low skill levels at 1st through 3rd levels and it is not as appealing as it seems. I have a monk in the group and she didn't start really using the extra attacks until 4th level.

In designing the 1st level session don't throw anything difficult at them. Maybe a goblin or two and some other easy monsters. 1st level should only be to help them understand the game more. But in the end it is up to you.

Having a party start at first level can teach them to parry........lol.

[Zhaleskra]

Bruce, where are you getting 3 Fate Points per Level from?  Officially characters start with 3 Fate points and can have a maximum of 5 at any time.

[Cory Magel]

You answered your own question Zhaleskra.  Bruce is correct, you get three Fate Points per level.  You are allowed up to have up to Five.

[Zhaleskra]

Actually, Cory, I didn't. That may be a house rule, and it is definitely not official.

[NicholasHMCaldwell]

Characters receive three fate points at 1st level. It is not three points per level.

Best wishes,
Nicholas

[Cory Magel]

Ah, starting not per.  Even though I've only run in HARP once I even read though some of that one fairly in helping a friend out.  I'll have to make sure I didn't pass the wrong info on there (although they've probably done their own house rule anyhow).

[Bruce]

Characters receive three fate points at 1st level. It is not three points per level.

Best wishes,
Nicholas

Oh wow, then were did I read that? I most definitely did not come up with that on my own nor is it a house rule. I learned that somewhere but apparently not the official rules. TBH the characters barely survive as it is now with 3 per level. I rarely ever give out extra fate points for anything, and in fact in the last year only one character has received a bonus fate point. That was because he stepped out to help protect one of the fighters in the group from getting attacked from behind in combat and he ended up having his leg cut off.... He is a non fighting cleric and had no fate points left to help him succeed. It was because of him that the party survived that encounter.

[Zhaleskra]

Characters may purchase Fate points for 5 DP at level up, and they may also be awarded by the GM.

Bruce, You may have automatically added something you expected to be there when you read about Fate Points. I know I've inserted words that aren't there in things I've been reading.

HARP is a system that expects you to do at least a partial parry, stressing the importance of parrying should help. The characters won't hit as hard but they also won't be hit as hard, baring Damage Cap breaches.

[Cory Magel]

A lot of players parrying behavior will be driven partially by what a GM throws at them as well as their own tendencies.  This is something I think some GM's need to understand.

In our gaming there's not much parrying.  We have GM's that throw creatures at us who's OB/DB mix largely make parrying unneeded and, overall, only the 'boss' like foes require it very often.  Now, this is a two way street... meaning some players build their DB up in order to reduce the need to parry, which may effect how the GM does things.  So I think this is something that really kind of needs to be determined by the group playing together.

Higher DB to OB ratios, generically, means less parrying.  Lower DB to OB ratios, generically, means more.

[Zhaleskra]

Cory, we've already been over that your groups and mine have different playstyles, though there is a possible exception with one player in my groups. The point of my post is that I don't think it's Fate Points that are the real issue.

[Charlie Four]

Bruce, where are you getting 3 Fate Points per Level from?  Officially characters start with 3 Fate points and can have a maximum of 5 at any time.

That's correct, it is clear in the book that you start with 3, but you have to buy for 5DPs after those.

The point is I don't want to the characters to need to spend all their fate points per level. I'm playing in Cyradon, and it's supposed to be a swashbuckling setting, not a one where characters get easily killed. That's why I'm asking, as far as I can tell, every enemy out there can wipe out a party of 3 level 1 characters, so it doesn't quite fit the mood, does it? Also since it's a first time roleplaying for some players, I want to throw an interesting session.

As for the Monk, I'm aware of the penalties, but after all in the long run a Monk can perform a number of attacks while the Fighter, the profession that's supposed to shine in combat, can't.

Any thoughts on my last question?

How beneficial/prejudicial is having more or less Favored Categories in the long run?

[NicholasHMCaldwell]

If you are playing in the Reawakened Lands, it will be more a "magical western" or the Cyradon Dream., than swashbuckling per se. At least in the beginning.

Healing spells go a long way in limiting deadliness in the game.

Fighters get two sets of  level-related bonuses and two starting talents. They do very well for themselves. The Monk multiple attacks are tied to their martial arts and that means getting up close and personal with their foes.

For a party of 3 PCs, the players need to cover as many areas of expertise as possible.

Best wishes,
Nicholas

[Charlie Four]

If you are playing in the Reawakened Lands, it will be more a "magical western" or the Cyradon Dream., than swashbuckling per se. At least in the beginning.

Healing spells go a long way in limiting deadliness in the game.

Fighters get two sets of  level-related bonuses and two starting talents. They do very well for themselves. The Monk multiple attacks are tied to their martial arts and that means getting up close and personal with their foes.

For a party of 3 PCs, the players need to cover as many areas of expertise as possible.

Best wishes,
Nicholas

All of that makes sense, I'll make sure I recomend a Cleric or introduce an NPC healer for support. It's great to have feedback from the man himself, thanks! (and thank you Bruce, of course) And I look forward for the new Cyradon and Bestiary book! (and The Codex)

[Zhaleskra]

As you're going for a swashbuckling theme, do the PCs have the Agile Defense / Swashbuckling talent, and if so, are they wearing only light armor? NPCs don't have to go for kills, they can use Subdue which initially removes 20 from the OB, but can be adjusted to a lighter critical at the character's leisure if it's still too deadly. Certain weapons can also be used for defense (officially the Main Guache and the Sai, but I'd go with all daggers) so long as the character has Shield Training and doesn't use that weapon to attack that round. I will also once again reiterate the importance of the partial parry.

[Charlie Four]

As you're going for a swashbuckling theme, do the PCs have the Agile Defense / Swashbuckling talent, and if so, are they wearing only light armor? NPCs don't have to go for kills, they can use Subdue which initially removes 20 from the OB, but can be adjusted to a lighter critical at the character's leisure if it's still too deadly. Certain weapons can also be used for defense (officially the Main Guache and the Sai, but I'd go with all daggers) so long as the character has Shield Training and doesn't use that weapon to attack that round. I will also once again reiterate the importance of the partial parry.

All useful tips, thanks, especially the Swashbuckler since I only read the core rulebook and was about to start with Martial Law and CoM.

I'm looking for the players to have a good time, that's all. The thing I'll have 2-3 players 26-28 years old completely new to pen & paper RPGs and most of them have seen fantasy movies or superhero series, so I'm guessing their expectations will be around bashing opponents even in inferior numbers. I've run a MERP forum campaign back in 2003-2006, own some RMFRP books(but never used them) so I'm not a complete newbie, but I haven't touched the dices since then, and I know in order to accomplish that 'tone', you need higher level characters than level 1, especially for a 3 players party.
Basically I want a gentle learning curve for them, make it easier the first session, so they don't have to get all tactical and then gradually increase the challenge. That's how I did it the last time with MERP and that's why I chose HARP(and ICE games in general), because you can adjust the level of heroic/grittiness even on the fly. I just wanted some HARP specific advise as to how to balance encounters and such, since MERP and HARP have their fair share of differences, open-ended rolls seem a lot deadlier in HARP even if the critical charts themselves seem less deadly.

[Zhaleskra]

You must be using the previous printing then: Agile Defense / Swashbuckler is in the core book for HARP Fantasy.

Another source of the problem may be expecting the same style of game from the Superhero game in the fantasy game. For both PCs and NPCs I'd say don't "max out" skills except the ones they're going to use a lot. They can always give up some or all of their OB for DB. Fate points can also be used to make a meaningful hit and not just not losing a limb, etc.

As you can probably tell, I don't consider HARP level 1 as deadly as say AD&D 2e level 1.

[NicholasHMCaldwell]

All useful tips, thanks, especially the Swashbuckler since I only read the core rulebook and was about to start with Martial Law and CoM.

What are the publication dates of your copies of HARP, Martial Law, and CoM? Look at the copyright info - are they published by Guild Companion Publications Ltd under license from Aurigas.

Best wishes,
Nicholas

[Charlie Four]

Ohhh, I was about to say that it's odd since I bought the PDFs on November 16th, barely over a month ago and I didn't see the Swashbuckler on the Master Talent List, but I found it under Agile Defense. My bad! Guess I need another read of the book. I read that part while I was on the lookout for the bus to take me home, so my attention wasn't optimal.

And I know about the superhero thing, I wasn't expecting that. Much less at lvl 1. All I said is that it seemed like the skills for Lvl 1 Char on HARP are a little less than their RMFRP counterparts IIRC. Maybe because the RM ones receive a full bonus at lvl 1 and then nothing as opposed to the +X every 3/5/7 levels of their HARP counterparts.

My concern is mainly out of the fact that we're only 3-4 guys myself included. I guess I can compensate for that starting at 2nd level.

[Zhaleskra]

I almost misunderstood, you're talking about level bonuses. Some of them are generous, giving a +10 every X levels maxing out at +30 (per skill), whereas others give +5 at the level markers and max out just a tad earlier at +25. For a moment I thought you were talking about the actual skill rank bonuses, i.e., +5 1-10, +2 11-20, +1 thereafter.

Were these characters random roll or 550 point buy? Did they take many talents?