Topic: Ruling required - special armour, AT, 'Encumbrance' AT, Skill & M&M

[Merkir]

Could I please have an official ruling. Our group is in a situation where we need to know exactly how special armour works. As an example please see p.167 of RMC Creatures & Treasures, Table 08-25, Type II Armour.  Specifically let's use as an example roll 288 - "Mithril +30 [5](AT-17)".

My questions are?
1. What skill development does this require, Plate or Soft Leather?
2. What Armour Maneuver Mod applies (from Arms Law, Table 02-01, page 11), AT5 or AT17?
3. In general terms, if we take the literal wording from C&T, "A number in brackets indicates the armour type for encumbrance purposes", then what are the actual benefits gained by the wearer?

It all seems quite ambiguous. I'm really stuck on the wording 'for encumbrance purposes'. Does it mean literally that the only benefit gained is under the 'Encumbrance' section, p.41 of Arms Law, or is it more than that? And in all of this I'm thinking quite clearly of Bilbo wearing his mithril armour and how it was portrayed.

Relevant sections:
C&T: pp. 158 (Special), 167, 177 (Dragonskin Armour)
AL: pp. 11, 41

[VladD]

No official ruling, but my own interpretation:

It means that the breast plate wears as a light leather vest. I usually tell players to use either their plate or soft leather skill. It is quite a boon since it means lower penalties also on swimming and such.

Dragon skin is flexible scales of special property, so I would allow it to made in an AT 11 and if I was feeling very generous an AT 12. This would require a very good leather worker or armorer.
Otherwise a AT 13, or 14 (depending on how much skin you have available and how good the armorer is, with AT 9 or 10 (respectively) wearing penalties.

[intothatdarkness]

I seem to recall wording from RM2 stuff that was normally along the lines of "encumbers as AT 5, protects as AT 17." My normal way of dealing with this was to use the weight, maneuver mods, and such of AT 5. For skill I would usually go with Plate, because in most cases the armor would still be shaped like plate (even if it was lighter and easier to move in), although Vlad's interpretation is equally valid. In my game the maneuver skill was usually determined by the type of armor (meaning its design), not its weight or encumbrance considerations.

Dragonskin in my games required a special smithing skill to even work (dragons weren't especially common), and was often restricted to specific races or locations. In some cultures it also took on religious significance, requiring additional ceremonies before it could be worn.

[Merkir]

Thanks for the replies. The fact that they are only interpretations, and there's been nothing further from ICE, tends to confirm my thinking that the RAW are a tad ambiguous. All in all, I now see at least three interpretations - VladD's, intothedarkness', and the literal interpretation of Encumbrance (ie. not much benefit at all).

ICE, please note for the new RMU, this part of the rules needs to be disambiguated. Let's have a very explicit list of the benefits of special armour.

Eg. A good start would be to change the current wording to "A number in brackets indicates the armour type for encumbrance, move & maneuver and skill development purposes", if that was the original intention (which I still don't know).

[jdale]

Since there's only one armor skill in RMU currently, the issue is a lot simpler. But in general I would think just canceling a fixed amount of armor maneuver penalty would the easiest solution, rather than confounding matters by treating it as an entirely different type.

[yammahoper]

You seek Treasure Companion.

[Malim]

Tbh.. i would say its up to what the armor is made of.. so GMs descretion.
A mihtril at17 is so light that its basicly cloth...
But a plate 19 that is made of some metal that just makes it lighter and better maybe enc as at 14 i would say plate skill!

[Spectre771]

I realize this is an old topic, but it's on the top page still.

We've always taken the wording to be as written.

Blah-Blah Armour of the Dwarf AT 5 Protects as AT 17
The PC must be trained in the Soft Leathers to wear it.  When in Combat, look under the AT17 column.  It is AT 5.  For MM, Encumbrance, Skill ranks, treat it as AT 5.

Blah-Blah Armour of the Cursed Elf  AT 5 Encumbers as AT 17
The PC must be trained in Soft Leather.  All encumbrance penalties for AT 17 apply, while in combat, look under the AT 5 column.   Again, the armour is still AT 5... it just has some poor construction or maintenance so it feels like AT17.  It won't matter if the PC is trained in the Plate Armours... he is wearing AT 5

If the GM was feeling quirky, he could gift

Blah-Blah Armour of the Quirky GM  +15 DB non-magical, AT 16, protects as AT 13, MM and Encumbrance as AT 2. 

The PC needs to have training in Chain Mail AT 16 to wear it.  In combat, resolve on the AT 13 column.  MM and encumbrances is for AT 2