Author Topic: SM2 - How to build a robot....  (Read 2478 times)

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Offline JimiSue

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SM2 - How to build a robot....
« on: July 15, 2012, 02:07:06 AM »
I've looked in the Tech Book but I can't see anything about the construction of robots - there's a bit that details some models you can buy off the shelf and a chart for what programs cost, but that's all. Does anyone know if such detail exists or is this something else I have to make up?

Would also be nice to get a better idea of what various androids and replicants come with stat-wise.

Offline markc

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Re: SM2 - How to build a robot....
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2012, 10:05:21 AM »
There is some info in the SM2 Companion that I bought as a scan from ICE.
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Offline yammahoper

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Re: SM2 - How to build a robot....
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2012, 10:14:11 AM »
SM:P Robotics Law has a detailed android construction rule set and covers robots too.  The material is easily converted.  Hope its still available.
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.

Offline markc

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Re: SM2 - How to build a robot....
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2012, 02:44:15 PM »
SM:P Robotics Law has a detailed android construction rule set and covers robots too.  The material is easily converted.  Hope its still available.


 I also like this version better as it is more up to date but it is different than the SM2 version.
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Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.

Offline JimiSue

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Re: SM2 - How to build a robot....
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2012, 03:48:34 PM »
Which would all be fine if I had Privateers - I never quite seem to be able to get my memory and my money lined up to buy those PDFs :) Or rather PoD because I really dislike PDF copies of rulebooks.

I've had a look in SpaMCo2 but can't see what you're looking at there - there are rules (contradictory and incomplete of course, but it wouldn't be X-Master without that :) ) for cybernetic limbs and other body parts, but I'm not seeing anything for robots...

Offline Ynglaur

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Re: SM2 - How to build a robot....
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2012, 09:39:17 PM »
Space Master 1st edition had one set, which IMO weren't great.
Space Master 2nd edition maintained that vehicle creation rules were the way to go (though you end up with odd things like not being able to fit a microfrequency rig for communications).
IMO the SM:P rules were the best, and should be relatively easy to back-port to SM2.

Offline TerryTee

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Re: SM2 - How to build a robot....
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2012, 04:55:35 PM »
Techbook 6.0 is about robots and androids in general. Notice that androids are seen as a type of robot (6.3). The Robot/Drone/Android/Replicant Cost Chart in ch. 7 gives you an idea about robot/android cost relationships.
11.2 is about android construction. It also states making an android is something in between making a robot and a replicant but more expensive than either. 12.2 is about making replicants. Mash then together, and use the costs from the chart mentioned above and that’s as good as SM2 is going to get on these topics.
-Terry

Offline JimiSue

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Re: SM2 - How to build a robot....
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2012, 06:07:07 PM »
...that’s as good as SM2 is going to get on these topics....
Or in other words, rubbish.

The situation is that my players have been badly shot up, it's the end of the session, one is on the verge of bleeding out (12 hits/round, the drug is only healing him at 8.5 per round...) and another was counting down the rounds until soul departure, and I suggest that they might want to spend some monits on an android, replicant or a robot to be a field med tech for them. I ignore the frankly hurtful jibes about how it doesn't matter, they will roll up their next characters as medical personnel.

When I get home, I do some looking up.

Androids... Virtual Humanitronics do a tech model, the Alex, at 130k. Or for a physician, the Sheri model at 140 might be better. Check.

Replicants - type 2 is the tech, 25k. Sweet.

Robots. OK, so I know robots can be technicians, I've seen them listed as sucvh in books. So I look on the programs list, see medical technics there... fine. And then I see it has a requirement of manipulate rating 9 (TB 32). That makes sense - it's delicate work after all. So I look on the program list for Manipulate, it's not there. Which is OK, it's probably something you have to buy as part of construction - a proper hand or other pseudopod for sensitive work.

Which is where I fail to find any construction rules. OK... so I think I'll look at the stats for the robots, see if that makes any sense. First exmple, the TAR robot (TB 33). At the bottom of the page it lists Manipulate under other functions, at +70. No rating though... so I am thinking that's like a skill rank progresssion, +70 actually relates to 20 picks in that area. But then I notice higher up, Program: Manipulate (Mk 2). Hold on... it's not listed as a program... and does that mean this only has rating 2 manipulate?

The ARC scout... (Tech 34) has neither manipulate as a skill or Program. And in fact, neither does the Diplomat robot (Tech 34-5), which must come in a bit tricky when handing out the drinks.

Arrrggghhh!!!!

Has anyone done any work on a system to build robots? If not, I can feel some rule-writing coming on. I may finally need to see if I can get hold of the last major piece of SM2 literature I don't have - Armored Assault.

Or, persuade them that a replicant is the way to go. I'm sure they can get one on the cheap. :)

Offline markc

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Re: SM2 - How to build a robot....
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2012, 06:34:34 PM »
Armored Assault will not help you with robots or androids. But I like it a lot for the rules that I use with SM:P
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Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.

Offline JimiSue

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Re: SM2 - How to build a robot....
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2012, 06:08:02 PM »
OK, so I'm doing my rules for robot construction. So far I have rated scores for intellect, manipulate and strength, options for motive form (covering walking, wheeled and gravitic) and a whole list of things that can be bought as extra add ons.

I'm trying to figure an elegant way to link some of these together. For example, some levels of strength are going to require minimum levels of size; some levels of motive form will have maximum weight capacity (well, all actually - if you want bigger you have to buy two motive forms and half the speed), and so on. I am figuring weight will be determined primarily by size on a fairly linear scale.

The headache though seems to be linking strength with size. I am scaling it such that a strength rating 5 robot is about as scrong as a normal human. A rating 10 could lift and manipulate in the region of a tonne with ratings higher than 10 indicating beefier machines - so that scale is moving away from the linear. I'm wondering about doing a relatively straightforward formula such that a robot must have a size rating of at least half its strength rating, and each size rating is a minimum of 25 cm in one dimension and 10cm in the others. and has a weight requirement of 20kg per size rating.

So for example, a domestic service robot might have:

Intellect 3 - able to recognise basic forms and patterns and in very limited situations can perform autonomous actions (e.g. pick up your dirty keks from the floor where you tossed them last night), but relies primarily on programming
Manipulate 6 - needs to be fairly dextrous to operate household appliances and do the dusting
Strength 3 - could carry maybe 15-20kg
Size 5 - somewhere in the region of 60-70 cm tall, and radius of 25cm or so - in this case size is determined by function rather than strength - it needs some storage to process trash, and to have sufficient reach to perform some tasks
Motive form - slow wheeled

Whereas a military scout robot might have:

Intellect 6 - capable of complex tasks involving interaction with the environment and some level of judgement
Manipulate 1 - limited to moving into things
Strength 9 - to carry itself, probable extra kit, and at a push, a passenger (maybe a wounded soldier)
Size 5 - the smaller the better, but strength requires this as a minimum. As the form can mostly be determined by the purchaser, could take the form of a slab a few cm thick, but with enough area to carry the human.
Motive form - fast gravitic (the passenger may need to be able to hold on. Tightly)

... and so on.

All robots come with appropriate chassis, standard batteries, scanners so they can "see" the world around them, and a pre-programmed factory personality :)

Bolt on additions so far are:

Human-pleasing exterior. Generally high-polish, and relatively seamless. Designed to hide the mess of motors, wires and other necessary innards from sight in polite society
Lightweight chassis: constructed from a stronger than normal alloy, allows a better strength-size ratio
Armoured: AT improved
Human Interface device: essentially, a speaker and voice synthesister.
Improved battery life: can operate twice as long
Concealed weapons: Not legal. Up to a mark equivalent to half the size rating
Improved power pack: required for gravitic vehicles
Extra torque: can carry twice as much extra weight, at a cost of 50% speed
Extra speed: can move twice as fast, but carry half the weight.
Lightweight construction with no loss of strength: reduces weight by 25%, increases speed by 25%
Durable: comes with backup systems and over-strong structure. Reduces speed by 25%, increases weight by 25%
Stealthy: penalty to being scanned
Custom paint job: Looks purdy
Ride-on: Some robots (e.g. a loading exo-skeleton) require a human to control them directly. Others have the capability to be ridden on/in

There will be a table on which minimums of certain ratings for the above will be specified along with the weights.

I'm trying to keep this as simple as I can but it seems to be wanting to get real complex. Anyone have any useful (or funny!) suggestions on achieving this?

Offline markc

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Re: SM2 - How to build a robot....
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2012, 07:17:29 PM »
1) Use standard RM scores for Stats as this makes it easier to understand and integrate into the system.
2) Is there going to be a chance for PC's to play bots? If so then #1 is important.
3) The St vs Size or St and Size is a tough one for me as I have been trying to figure out a way to define this also in terms of normal players PC's. (ie in adding another stat that is mostly static but has some bearing on play and skills, may also be called body in other games)


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Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.

Offline JimiSue

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Re: SM2 - How to build a robot....
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2012, 01:58:07 AM »
While I can see the benefits for going to RM scores, I'm not sure they won't hinder more than help especially as a chunk of the robot capability will be based on programs as well - yes I could base AG on the manipulate, but their ability to fire a gun would depend more on a program bought to allow them to calculate aim, trajectory and so on. Likewise a robot able to drive would make more use of their driving program to control the vehicle than its own natural AG or QU.

At this stage PCs won't be able to play robots - I don't allow androids as PCs as a general rule, and while a game involving a race of intelligent robots that 'wear' bodies according to their need at the time is attractive, it is beyond the scope of what I'm trying to achieve here.