Author Topic: Cyberware and armor  (Read 1808 times)

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Offline Dimuscul

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Cyberware and armor
« on: June 18, 2012, 11:46:59 AM »
I'm trying to find what usefulness does have to put armor in a cyberarm or cyberhand ... can someone point me to a page explaining it?

Offline yammahoper

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Re: Cyberware and armor
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2012, 04:50:43 PM »
Robotics Manual has complete cyber rules.  Artificial limbs are covered there too.

One of the premises of the cybernetics rules is installing cybernetics damages Em.  To many can drop your Em below 20, at which point...well, lets just say unfeeling homicidal tendencies may emerge.

A fake arm won't do that (well, unless the PC has very low Em to begin with...)
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.

Offline Dimuscul

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Re: Cyberware and armor
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2012, 05:45:09 PM »
I'm asking about armor.

Why should I put armor to my cyberarm?

I mean, I don't see rules for localized damage (apart from a critical that don't take into account what type of armor you have). So why should a player put armor in a cyberam (or leg) when it hasn't an apparent use.

Offline yammahoper

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Re: Cyberware and armor
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2012, 07:58:42 PM »
There are rule for localized damage, at least to cyber limbs, in SM:P.  Specifically in the Robotics Manuel.  Limbs have X hits and can be damaged destroyed.

My book is in the foot locker in the shed, so no chance I'm geting it out tonight.
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.

Offline JimiSue

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Re: Cyberware and armor
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2012, 02:20:55 AM »
I've done a bit (uploaded to the download section) on cybernetics, but for SM2 rather than SM:P. However, I would use a rule I mention in that combined with a house rule (I think it was a house) that we use when someone has two armour types on. Such as might be gained from using an armour psion when wearing armour as well, or an armoured cyber limb.

The first is the rule of 9s. This is a quick and easy way to divide up body mass/area/volume. Essentially, for total body mass, legs and torso each count as 2/9 of the total and arms and head count as 1/9 each. So when you have a localised effect (like your armoured cyber-limb) that needs to affect something more generalised (the character's defensive capability), you can work out the effect and then divide it appropriatesly by coverage.

The second rule when using multiple ATs. We used to rule that the actual AT was whichever armour was the higher of the two, and the second counted as a DB bonus - we played around with the figure, but ended up with 3*AT as being a reasonable amount. So, a teep normally wearing AT12, bangs up an AT20 arnour psion. He then becomes AT 20 (36) for the duration of the psion.

However, because in your scenario it isn't a full body coverage, I would then apply the rule of 9s. If the example above becomes an armsman wearing AT20, who has a cyber leg armoured to AT12, he would be AT20, and apply a defensive bonus equal to (3*12) * (2/9), or 36 * (2/9), or 72/9 = 8. So his armoured cyber leg gives him an additional DB of 8 overall.

If the situation were reversed (i.e. the cyber leg had a higher AT than the regular armour, I would probably adopt the same principle but make him AT 8 ( 8 ). Or indeed AT 1 ( 8 ) if he is just wearing normal clothes.

However, another matter is if the character is relaxing on a beach in his speedos when someone kicks sand into his face (either metaphorically or actually), so there is actually no other AT to take into account. In that one you can either go with waiting until the critical result to see which body part is affected (which would mean having to resolve the attack against AT1, rolling the crit, and if it affects the cyber area go back and rework the result against AT 12, potentially reducing or removing the actual critical entirely. Which is a pain.) or just give the PC a 2/9 or 18% chance for the attack to use the leg AT rather than the speedo AC. Which could also be a pain but in an entirely different way.

So, for your beach party encounters, encourage your cybered-up PCs to cover up against the sun's UV output. It reduces headaches when they get into trouble later on :)

Offline markc

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Re: Cyberware and armor
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2012, 09:29:20 AM »
I'm asking about armor.

Why should I put armor to my cyberarm?

I mean, I don't see rules for localized damage (apart from a critical that don't take into account what type of armor you have). So why should a player put armor in a cyberam (or leg) when it hasn't an apparent use.


 Armor for cyberlimb is so it is always armored and you limb does not have to have armor over the top of it.
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Offline Dimuscul

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Re: Cyberware and armor
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2012, 04:49:47 AM »
Quote
Armor for cyberlimb is so it is always armored and you limb does not have to have armor over the top of it.
MDC

And?

Sorry, English is not my mother language so probably I'm failing at explaining my doubts ...

This is not Cyberpunk where you roll location and damage. here you roll first attack based on the armor of your opponent.

How does n armored cyberarm affect the general armor? Why I should bother with a combat armor (for the cyberarm) instead of the civilian tough skin?

I could use JimiSue suggestion but ... there's no official rule about it? It feels like a bad design to me ... having to roll, check critical, roll again on other armor column and use other critical, seems a bit rubbish.


Offline markc

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Re: Cyberware and armor
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2012, 07:44:14 AM »
On page 38 2nd column last paragraph under Cyberlimbs but above the example is the info you want.
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Offline Dimuscul

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Re: Cyberware and armor
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2012, 08:19:40 AM »
Not exactly ... that rule is for separate hit points on a cyberlimb, suggesting I have to use other critical tables if a hit lands on a cyberlimb.

But doesn't explain how I manage hit location without having to check to times the attack table if the cyberlimb have different armor.

Offline yammahoper

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Re: Cyberware and armor
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2012, 08:28:55 AM »
Quote
How does n armored cyberarm affect the general armor? Why I should bother with a combat armor (for the cyberarm) instead of the civilian tough skin?

It doesnt, unless you fell it should provide a DB bonus to reflect the ability to use it to deflect blows with...or if the cyber arm has a built in energy shield, deployable physical shield, etc.

Only when a critical indicates the limb is struck do you need to apply cyber limb damage rules.  So cyber limbs have their own hits and can suffer thier own penalties.
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.