Topic: Parry options and guns

[JimiSue]

So, you're in a smooth-walled metal corridor beloved of science fiction, and suddenly, A Frothing Berserker (see Players book, SM2) steps out and takes a shot at you. One lucky critical later, and you're looking at a result of 'Stunned and must parry for one round."

The question is, how? I've always had an issue with parry options when using firearms in that to parry something, you really need to have something to parry with. And if you're hiding behind something to use it to parry with, you'll be getting cover bonuses from that anyway.

Question two of this... in SM2 there is an item called a shield collector, that essentially gathers a forcefield into a version akin to an old school shiel, giving +30 protection to frontal and side attacks only. If your OB was such that parrying would still give you a parry modifier of, say +50, would you be able to use all of that bonus to parry with? Or would it be capped at +30, the max the shield can stop? And should you get it anyway since you already hjave a DB bonus from using the thing in the first place?

All opinions welcome.

[Erik Sharma]

If they don't have anything to parry with I just rule that they can't attack during the parry round. I consider it one of the drawbacks with using ranged weapons. But that is my take on it.

[markc]

A) Must Parry ?: IMHO the person who took the crit tries to parry with what ever they have in there hand(s), sort of like the movies.
B) Shield Collector ?: IMHO the Shield Collector IIRC functions the same as a shield so you would use all of the rules from RM2 for its use during stun.


Does that help?
MDC

[Usdrothek]

If there is nothing to parry with (ie hide behind), then you're plum out of luck.

[Ynglaur]

Re-roll a new character.

[arakish]

Re-roll a new character.

Mind-reader.  That was my first thought.

rmfr

[JimiSue]

Yes. Especially when the Frothing Berserker switches his struptor over from 'stun' to 'disrupt'.

However, one thing occurs to me. DB is calculated assuming you're going to try and maneuver yourself to get a couple of OB shots in. If all you're concentrating on is being defensive, might the character still get a bonus to his DB by sacrificing his OB, even if there is nothing to parry with?

I sense a house rule coming on.

[Usdrothek]

Nope, don't sugar coat it. Players soon learn to identify dangerous situations.

An empty metal hallway is a killing zone for good reason.

[JimiSue]

An empty metal hallway is a killing zone for good reason.

Good point, well made.

Forget the hallway then - similar situation in a more open environment. Still a decided lack of substantial things to hide behind to parry with, but adequate room to maneuver.

I'm still inclined to shake my head sadly at the PC as I roll the Frothing Berserker's attack, but always good to cover all circumstances

[Usdrothek]

Doesn't tumbling allow a dive for cover? Dropping prone at medium range or better gives a DB bonus (I think).

Being caught out in open ground and exposed to enemy fire is dangerous....just like in today's world. Energy weapons wouldn't make that situation any better.

Players should learn that standing out in the open, having an OK corral style gunfight, will be very messy.

[RandalThor]

So, you're in a smooth-walled metal corridor beloved of science fiction, and suddenly, A Frothing Berserker (see Players book, SM2) steps out and takes a shot at you. One lucky critical later, and you're looking at a result of 'Stunned and must parry for one round."

In this situation I am more than willing to just go with they have nothing to add to their DB, or say they can use one-quarter of their relevant OB (imo, it is best to use a melee OB), but the Berzerker gets a bonus for shooting "ducks in a barrel."

Forget the hallway then - similar situation in a more open environment. Still a decided lack of substantial things to hide behind to parry with, but adequate room to maneuver.

In this situation - because I feel that OB is in part a moving skill - they can use up to one-quarter of a relevant OB (melee, again) to add to their DB. But that is because that is my standard for defending against missile attacks. Of course, with shields and things to use for cover, the defender can get bonuses, and the stunned (-50) is applied to their OB prior to dividing it up. (Is how I do it, but, hey, I'm a nice guy.)

[Marc R]

This is one of the reasons I always find anyone who doesn't have at least 1 rank in some unarmed combat skill suspicious. . ..even the Dali Lama likely pushed, grabbed or punched someone before he reached 18 years old.

[Ynglaur]

If stuck in the open, just be like Han Solo: shoot first.  Initiative matters a bit more with firearms than with melee weapons, imo.

[Marc R]

Keep in mind that fire is not a 100% action either. . .30-60 leaves you the opportunity to fire 30-40 and melee 60-70, using said melee to full parry.

[JimiSue]

Hmm. I can't believe that after all these years I had not read the rules on the battle round sequence. I had assumed that my first GM got it correct (he was a rules lawyer so you come to expect accuracy!). He held that if you melee attacked then you could not fire in either fire phase. However, I see on rereading the description of the melee phase you can only not make a melee attack if you have fired in fire phase B, (or cast/prepped a psion. fired in FP A and moved/maneuvered, Moved/maneuvered and fired in FP B, fired in both FP A and FP B, or moved/maneuvered more than 50% of normal allowance.

Although I do allow psion users to attack in the melee phase if they are attempting to touch their opponent to make the psion easier to cast. Which raises another query I'll stick on a new thread

Further reading reveals that you can only fire pistol-sized weapons in melee - that gives me some tactical options for use against PCs with big guns. Provided they can get through the barrage of fully automatic slugs, likely modified to be high explosive armour-piercing depleted uranium core irulon (sp?) coated rounds.

[Ynglaur]

It's hard to be a Jedi in SM with RAW.

[yammahoper]

It's hard to be a Jedi in SM with RAW.

That's because Jedi are silly.  Deflecting energy beams?  Now that's some amazing reflexes.

Of course, in the world of space opera, using OB to parry firearms is probably ok.  Remember when Arnie flexed his bicep to deflect the nuclear blast in Predator?  Seems over the top, and I don't tend to go for it, but players sure love it.  So let em all be budding Jedi...or gun em down in cold blood.  I prefer to be gunned down, but then I never hope to get caught in an open hallway AND losing init.  Han Solo won when he was caught, and ran.

[David Johansen]

For the most part 'firearm parry' is keeping your head down more and aiming less.  In the empty hall with no shield I'm pretty sure RMSS is clear that you can't parry if you've got nothing to parry with.  Even so I suppose in a cinematic game you might be able to fake your attacker out.  Deke left and go right or what not.  Happens in the movies all the time.  Indeed scary monsters frequently leave the screen on the left and come back from the right without passing through the intervening space.

[yammahoper]

For the most part 'firearm parry' is keeping your head down more and aiming less.  In the empty hall with no shield I'm pretty sure RMSS is clear that you can't parry if you've got nothing to parry with.  Even so I suppose in a cinematic game you might be able to fake your attacker out.  Deke left and go right or what not.  Happens in the movies all the time.  Indeed scary monsters frequently leave the screen on the left and come back from the right without passing through the intervening space.

There is a talebt in PUlp Adventures that allows a PC (or villian) to do just this.  I also like the "Dramatic Timing" talent.  It allows PC's to always manage to arrive on the scene "in the nick of time."