Topic: SM: Privateers VM Construction & Design: Warp/Jump/Spatial Fold FTL Drives

[snrdg051306]

I think I'm missing the point on the calculations for the Warp, Jump, and Spatial Fold FTL Drives.

Here is how I'm understanding the rules. A TL 25 10,000 ton ship is equipped with any warp drive. All warp drives take up a volume of 30,000 ÷ 5 kiloliters = 6,000 kiloliters.

To me the mass, volume, and cost should be increasing with the range somehow.

With the exception of the power requirement, Jump and Spatial Fold drives appear to keep mass, volume, and cost the same regardless of the jump range or number of spatial folds.

Can some kind soul get my head straight on this.

[markc]

1) Yes the range of the Warp Drive is determined by the chart below the formula and it is fixed value.
2) It seems to me that the info provided is very general. The texts talks about limitations and such but does not really explain any. IMHO this could be expanded upon as a lot is left up to the GM to determine for their game. And as the drives do not exist in SM:P it is not a big deal to leave a lot unexplained but I would have preferred a more complete explanation.


MDC 

[snrdg051306]

I have to agree that mentioning a possible type of equipment, like warp, jump, and spatial fold drives a little more detail would be nice. GURPS Vehicles provides the tools to create stuff not normally found in a setting.

Oh, well I'll just live with the rules. Thanks MarkC for the reply.

[Skaran]

What you want is a decreasing volume and mass of drives of a given rating, so for example a tech 23 drive can do a maximum of warp 6 for a given volume and mass, the same warp 6 drive built at tech 24 should be smaller than a tech 24 drive capable of warp 8.

How about this a warp 6 drive built by the tech 24 culture who can build warp 8 drives would have a volume and mass of 6/8 of the full size warp 8 drive. A warp 1 drive would be 1/8 and so on at tech 24.

[snrdg051306]

Hey Skaran,

Sounds like a good scaling method that would work, only if The Powers That Be approve. Thanks for the idea.

[Marc R]

I seem to recall seeing logic that had gear decreasing by a formula of tech level. . . .I'll dig, but it might be another system and my brain is cross connecting.

[snrdg051306]

Evening Marc R,

Hopefully the formal is for SM: P and thanks for the help.

[markc]

What you want is a decreasing volume and mass of drives of a given rating, so for example a tech 23 drive can do a maximum of warp 6 for a given volume and mass, the same warp 6 drive built at tech 24 should be smaller than a tech 24 drive capable of warp 8.

How about this a warp 6 drive built by the tech 24 culture who can build warp 8 drives would have a volume and mass of 6/8 of the full size warp 8 drive. A warp 1 drive would be 1/8 and so on at tech 24.

 Unfortunately in RL it is not as simple as 1/8 the mass I think a better way would be some set base mass and then modified by the drive value; so you would have say 60% base + (40% base) (drive value/drive max) or some such thing. To make it more complex you can also have mods ie factors in-front of the first value based on TL also. Such as Tec 30 being the absolute min volume of 50% normal and the fist intro fate being normal volume. Then the drive volume reduces by TL from the intro date to TL 30.
MDC   

[snrdg051306]

Evening MarkC,

There are a lot of compromises between the Real Life and Gaming World when trying to come-up with a solution for construction rules. SM: P VM,  considering the circumstances/pressures when published, is a very good system in my opinion.

Tom R

[markc]

  I agree the pressure of time, RL, $, page count, editing, layout, art, etc can drive people crazy. Especially when people are not on the same page as one another or when things change because of one thing or another when you are done. Then you have to go back and do the project all over again.
MDC

[snrdg051306]

  I agree the pressure of time, RL, $, page count, editing, layout, art, etc can drive people crazy. Especially when people are not on the same page as one another or when things change because of one thing or another when you are done. Then you have to go back and do the project all over again.
MDC

Yep MarkC that is why I used the blanket term circumstances. However, the big difference is that the majority of the work has already been done and now the tweaking can be started.

[markc]

 I agree and that it where I was at when I stopped my project as I was thinking on what I wanted to add, where I wanted to add it and then got blindsided by the fact my players wanted to go back to fantasy. Too much thinking in SF for one of them.


MDC

[snrdg051306]

I've found that in some fantasy games there is also way to much thinking  about how to come up with the ultimate magic weapon or spell. Of course I had two reasons to move over to SF. The first was that I got tired of the hack and slash campaigns. The other reason is that the construction systems usually didn't allow me to build starships, lasers, and such non-magical stuff.

[arakish]

Been gone from these forums for a couple of months and trying to catch up.

Here is the system we used to use for the Warp Drive.  Will look to see what we have for the other drives.  We use the Hypershunt Drive (not in TL:VM).

Warp Drive: This drive creates a field around the vessel which literally warps the Space-Time Continuum (STC) itself.  Like the Flux Drive, the warp field negates the effects of superluminal velocities and time dilation.  Currently it is unknown whether Warp Drive had a maximum achievable velocity.  The most advanced drives developed by the ISEC were able to achieve maximum safe cruising velocity of Warp 12 and maximum temporary emergency velocity of Warp 15.

However, there is a major drawback to the Warp Drive.  After decades of extensive research performed by the ISEC, it was discovered that the Warp Drive actually tears apart the STC.  Although each usage of a Warp Drive had a miniscule effect, this "tearing" tended to build up over time, especially in the primary shipping lanes.  This "tearing" built up until the formation of "The Breech".  The Breech is a rip in the STC that has yet to be repaired by the ISEC.  Currently, there are two breeches still in existence inside the TSE.  There are navigational buoys marking these locations.  Further studies towards closing these "rips" are still being conducted.  This prompted the ISEC into a new field of research for a new superluminal drive.

AUTHOR'S NOTE: There was an episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation that discussed this same exact effect that I had proposed about two or three years earlier to my RPG group back in 1984.

Visual Effect: Going into warp, the vessel seems to stretch infinitely to the "point of infinity".

Warp Drive Mass = ((Ship's Mass) ÷ Factor) × 1.1
Warp Drive Volume = (Ship's Volume) ÷ Factor
Warp Drive Power = 0; produces own power
Warp Drive Cost = [(Ship's Mass) × 10,000] ÷ Factor
Minimum Crew = (Drive's Mass) ÷ 1000
Warp Drive Velocity = (Warp Factor)³ in c

WARP DRIVE CHART

Tech Level	Factor	Maximum Safe Warp	Maximum Emergency Warp
20	5	1	1
21	5.5	1	1.25
22	6	3	3.75
23	6.5	4	5
24	7	6	7.5
25	7.5	9	11.25
26	8	12	15
27	8.5	15	18.75
28	9	20	25
29+	+0.5/lvl	+5/lvl	Safe Warp × 1.25

rmfr

EDIT: fixed a superscript numeral...

[arakish]

Addenda to above post.

Contrary to what is listed in the TL:VM, when you use (Warp Factor)³ as the determinant for Warp velocity, then Warp Factor 10 IS NOT the maximum velocity.  In Star Trek, Warp Factor velocity was actually on an asymptotical curve.  Warp Factor 10 was considered to be "infinite velocity."  An unachievable velocity for one would be in all locations in the entire universe at the same time.

Thus, using (Warp Factor)³ means that Warp 10 is not the maximum velocity.

Will get it posted later, but we also had an Ultra Warp Drive where the velocity determinant was (Warp Factor)⁵.

rmfr

[snrdg051306]

Hello all,

Just got my computer back from the shop. I've got two 80 gigabyte hard drives, system built about 7 years ago, using a striped Raid array. One of the drives began failing which resulted in having to get a new 80 gigabyte drive. Imaging with Ghost took about a week and another week to put the image back.  Now I'm back.

[snrdg051306]

Hello arakish,

The Warp Drive looks good. I think before my little computer issue I mentioned that I found my Star Trek Straship Construction Manual.

Catch you later

[arakish]

@snrdg051306
Glad you got your computer back.  Know how that can be.  Mine crashed completely halfway through my dissertation for my Masters.  Fortunately I made an ISO of my HDD every week.

Found out for the Ultra Warp Drive, the only difference was the determinant for velocity.  Everything else remained the same, just velocity was changed to (Warp Factor)⁵.

Here are the Jump Drive and Spatial Fold Drive as they were originally written up.  We haven't edited these drives since originally written in 1998.  We never use them, thus never tested.


Jump Drive: Enigmans ONLY.  Sometimes thought to be similar to the Wormhole Gate system, the Jump Drive does not need another system at the other end.  Travel is instantaneous.  However, there is a recharge time.  Tech levels can lower this recharge time.  However, it still does open an instantaneous wormhole through sub-space.  This system is very difficult to track when first encountered.  To track a vessel that utilizes the Jump Drive system, one must have a Sensor Lock on the vessel, then makes a Sensor Lock-on roll: OEd100 + sensor skill - 300.  The result must be 100 or higher.  Otherwise, Sensor Lock is lost.

Visual Effect: In one second, the vessel increasingly brigthens to a brilliant, almost blinding, blue-white light, then vanishes in an increasingly fading and blinking blue after-image.

Jump Drive Volume = Ship's Volume × Factor.
Jump Drive Mass = Ship's Mass × Factor.
Jump Drive Cost = Drive's Mass × Factor × 50,000.
Jump Drive Power = Drive's Mass × 1500
Minimum Crew = Drive's Mass ÷ 1000
Recharge Time = (Distance Jumped in light years) × Factor; in 32 hour periods.
Maximum Distance Jumped = (Factor²)²; in Light Years

JUMP DRIVE FACTORS

Tech Level	Mass/Volume Factor	Distance Factor	Recharge Factor	Cost Factor
23	0.1	2	1	1
24	0.05	3	0.1	0.5
25	0.025	4	0.01	0.25
26	0.01	6	0.001	0.125
27	0.005	9	0.0001	0.0625
28	0.0025	12	0.00001	0.03125
29	0.001	15	0.000001	0.015
30+	×½/lvl	+5/lvl	×0.1/lvl	×½/lvl

Spatial Fold Drive: Nightwings (Dugaryi) ONLY.  This drive system works by swapping two spatial volumes.  Two centroid locality points are defined.  Then, the spatial volume at each locality is defined.  Then, once powered, this drive system literally swaps, or switches, the two spaces.  Once the two spaces are swapped, all matter contained within those spaces is also swapped.  Travel is instantaneous.  Tracking with any system seems to be ineffectual.  At least, no system has been discovered yet.  Use the same Sensor Lock as in Jump Drive.

This drive is exceptionally dangerous to use when the utilizing vessel is under direct energy-based weapons fire.  Failures have been known to alter the spatial volume definition so as to cause a ship to be severed into two when the locations are swapped.  For a modifier, use the total amount of weapon's mark numbers.  Divide this number by 2 to get the negative modifier.  GM may increase or decrease the divisor as desired.

Visual Effects: Once activated, the vessel just seems to fade away in one second.  Any matter in the other spatial locality seems to fade into view.  The Dugaryi have used this to great effect when in battle.  Think about it.

Note: The Dugaryi have not been truly contacted.  Only their vessel's, classified as "nightwings," because of their design, have been seen.  However, with their spatial fold drives, the Nightwings are impossible to track.

Spatial Fold Drive Volume = Ship's Volume × Factor
Spatial Fold Drive Mass = Ship's Mass × Factor
Spatial Fold Drive Cost = (Drive's Mass × 75,000)
Spatial Fold Drive Power = Distance Folded × Factor
Maximum Spatial Fold Distance = (Factor³)³ ; in Light Years
Spatial Fold Drive Recharge Time = Distance Folded in LY × Factor; in 24 hour periods.
Minimum Crew = (Drive's Mass) ÷ 100

SPATIAL FOLD DRIVE FACTORS

Tech Level	Mass/Volume Factor	Distance Factor	Recharge Factor	Cost Factor
23	0.1	2	1	1
24	0.05	3	0.1	0.5
25	0.025	4	0.01	0.25
26	0.01	6	0.001	0.125
27	0.005	9	0.0001	0.0625
28	0.0025	12	0.00001	0.03125
29	0.001	15	0.000001	0.015
30+	×½/lvl	+5/lvl	×0.1/lvl	×½/lvl

Enjoy! 

rmfr

[Skaran]

For one of my old Traveller games, now being run in SM I used something called the Hyperspace Translation Drive (HTD) a description of it can be found at
http://www.skaran.net/corecampaign/technology/htd/htd.html
Ignore the construction details. For SM I used the warp drive figures to determine drive stats but since it has a fixed FTL speed (1 ly per day) is operates more like the Flux drive in VM.