Official ICE Forums
Systems & Settings => Rolemaster => RMSS/FRP => Topic started by: vroomfogle on October 16, 2007, 05:59:45 PM
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In RMC each skill has a variable number of stats and each stat has a bonus ranging from -25 to +25 (excluding racial/special bonuses). The bonuses are averaged when a skill uses multiple skills. A skill could theoretically use any number of stats, any number of times.
In RMSS each skill uses 3 stats (though a stat may be used multiple times) and each stat has a bonus ranging from -10 to +10 (excluding racial/special bonuses). The bonuses are all added together. An exception to this is when calculating the realm stat bonus for Hybrids (or Arcane users) in which case the bonuses need to first be averaged together.
When RMSS was released I though the new method was the cat's pajamas, but it has an inherent flaw. There's no way of having a skill weight two stats exactly the same (i.e. there's no St/Ag skills, only St/St/Ag OR St/Ag/Ag). Furthermore, when looking through RMSS at what skills use what stats it seems that many of them are quite arbitrary. Were they possibly added just because they needed a third stat?
In terms of flexbility the RMC method is better because it allows any type of weighting of stats. The only real advantage of the RMSS method is that it eliminates the need to average.
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I absolutely do not care.
If there is some marketing trend that shows one method is prefered due to ease (most people are fairly lazy), then pick that method, be it one stat, adding two stats, adding three stats, whatever.
I doubt anything involving any level of division will be popular.
lynn
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I said that I play both and perfer the additive method. It is easier to teach and no rounding. I don't play both any longer, but that is all I could chose.
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IMO, the 3 stat system is better because it spreads out the bonus and prevents 1 stat from skewing a skill or a group of skills. Also if you use the 3 stats you should IMO use the optional rule in RMSS that each skill has a stat to go with the 2 stats that go with the category.
MDC
Edit:
I guess it alos depends on what you are trying to do. Do you want a game to as accuratly as possible represent life or are you making a cartoon game.
MDC
Edit #2:
Dident you ask this same Q about 6-12 months back?
MDC
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markc, i did ask a similar question a while back in the revision (specifically we discussed the number of stats). It's archived now, but I thought I'd run a poll about it.
Also though, keep in mind with RM2 you can still use 3 stats (and 3 stats are used for melee for instance), it just means averaging them. This question isn't so much about the # of stats as the method - either use a variable number of stats with averaging (RMC), or a fixed number of stats with an additive method (RMFRP).
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Vroom,
Personaly I do not mind one way or another but in general I have found that most people are math avoiders. And IMO division is harder than addition. On the other hand IMO again most peolple make or use a spreed sheet to create characters now so the point is sort of mute.
MDC
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I've played both RM2 and RMFRP and it does not really matter to me which method is used to calculate the stat bonus. Just adding the bonuses is a bit easier. OTOH the averaging method easily allows for an arbitrary number of stats being used. So if the system, like in the case of RMFRP, is using three stats for the total stat bonus portion of a skill you can e.g. add St+St+Ag, but using St and Ag with the same (50%) proportion is not easily possible.
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No system can have standard rules with the assumption of a spread sheet.
We are colletively a group of RM gamer geeks, said with nothing but love my friends. The new RM gamer probably will not be.
Lynn
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Addition good.
Division & rounding bad. Especially if you have to refigure skills is a stat changes.
For the RMFRP third stat, we use the variable third stat optional rule. It does solve a few of the odd stat problems but does help some.
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It's hard to choose. Each edition have one method and I think it's suitable for each edition. I guess adittion is easier and avoids the round-up/down but we RM2ers are used to average method. Usually I use 2 stats for skills, I try to avoid 3 stats average.
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averaging is easy for me, and I've been using it for 27 years, so I'll stick with it.
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I prefer single-stat based skills, since it is the simplest system by a very large margin.
So I voted "Other".
It's not that I always choose simplicity over realism (given that choice) only that in this particular case I feel the added realism isn't worth the added bookkeeping. Adding or averaging two or three numbers (all of which may change each level) is just more too much trouble - just as using a spreadsheet to play a paper-based game is too much trouble.
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Addition is obviously easier, however I don't think all skills should require 3 stats, so averaging enables stats more closely 'customized' based on the skill.
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Actually, the biggest problem I have with the way RMSS does skill stats is the fact that all the skills within a category utilize the same stats. Even the optional third stat is only a slight mitigation of this.
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I use the additive method in RFRP and the reason is simple: It's the only RM I've owned and played, because it was the RM in the store that was fully stocked.
I tried figuring out all the different nuances of each edition for a while, but gave it up as a futile effort (that's me though; my hat is still off to you for trying and wish you all the best.)
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It must be months since I complained about the stat identities in RM. Empathy? Blows. Presence for Mentalism power points? Blows.
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It must be months since I complained about the stat identities in RM. Empathy? Blows. Presence for Mentalism power points? Blows.
I always thought that the stats that affect skills should be divorced from stats that affect magic use, but never did anything about it vis-a-vis customizing the rules. Not sure of a good way of doing that, other than adding new stats (which I don't necessarily think would be good anyhow).
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I guess that some of those comes down to the realms in general. The idea that the same stat helps you with casting Essence spells and riding a horse doesn't make a great deal of sense to me.