Topic: Martial Law: questions about critical hits, armor, etc

[frodolives]

I'm a bit puzzled as to certain aspects of critical hits in ML. Most critical results give a penalty to maneuvers, but some don't. For instance, on the slash table, an 'arm' result of 81-85 breaks your arm an penalizes you -25M. Yet a result of 101-105 also breaks your arm but doesn't give you a penalty. There are a lot of similar examples that can be given. For instance an 51-60 'leg' slash results in the PC falling to the ground and suffering -15 to maneuvers. But a 61-70 result gives no penalty for essentially the same result (a slash that drops you to the ground).

Regarding armor, I don't see why any armor besides rigid leather adjusts the damage you receive.  The DB of every type of armor already adjusts the damage you take, so why adjust it further? If you wear chain, your DB is better than if you wear soft leather... why penalize leather further or make chain even more effective than it already was? I can see adjusting for certain types of attacks (eg, chain is more effective against slashes than against crushes), but the current system doesn't make sense to me.

[Right Wing Wacko]

Then use the core system

I think ML works just fine as is... armor should modify the damage from an attack!

Maybe you should take a look at HARPers Bazaar 11... it has a combat system that is similar to (if not the same as) the old MERP system. Check it out, you might like it.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

There are 2 main parts to a critical result.

1) Flavor Text -- You are encouraged to change this to match the situation. This is only to make the crits sound more interesting. 

2) Damage Dealt -- This is the actual damage that dealt to the character. This is the actual important part. 


Regarding armor adjustments to crits -- This is an optional rule, you can use it or ignore it as you like. Some folks will use it, others won't. It is there for overall completeness. It is especially useful when using armor by the piece and hit locations, to allow a GM to adjust damage to the location based on the armor worn. The total armor worn provides a general DB mod, this optional rule allows for slight variations in the results based on what is worn where. (i.e. leather breastplate, metal greaves and bracers, etc).

[frodolives]

There are 2 main parts to a critical result.

1) Flavor Text -- You are encouraged to change this to match the situation. This is only to make the crits sound more interesting. 

2) Damage Dealt -- This is the actual damage that dealt to the character. This is the actual important part. 

Okay... but this doesn't address the maneuver penalty inconsistency I'm talking about.

[frodolives]

I think ML works just fine as is... armor should modify the damage from an attack!

It already adjusts the damage from an attack with the DB modifier.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

There are 2 main parts to a critical result.

1) Flavor Text -- You are encouraged to change this to match the situation. This is only to make the crits sound more interesting. 

2) Damage Dealt -- This is the actual damage that dealt to the character. This is the actual important part.

Okay... but this doesn't address the maneuver penalty inconsistency I'm talking about.

Actually, it does.

Look at the crits from the point of view of damage only. Not every crit has every type of damage. But, the overall case is that the damage from crits gets worse, the higher up the table you go.

Your problem is that the flavor text might say similar things, but it isn't doing the same damage.

For instance an 51-60 'leg' slash results in the PC falling to the ground and suffering -15 to maneuvers. But a 61-70 result gives no penalty for essentially the same result (a slash that drops you to the ground).

In that example, it is the Flavor Text that is almost the same. The damage itself is not. For example, the "leg slash" could easily be a kneecap strike or you stomped on his foot really really hard.

But, if you look at 61-70, I am sure that the overall damage (hits, stuns, bleeding, penalties), is worse than the entry before it, even if it does not do exactly the same types of damage.

Damage is not a linear progression on all entries for all the types of damage. And not every entry will have every type of damage.

Is it perfect? Not likely, but then again nothing is. 

[Right Wing Wacko]

I think ML works just fine as is... armor should modify the damage from an attack!

It already adjusts the damage from an attack with the DB modifier.

No, DB adjusts the potential to be hit for damage, not the damage itself.

[frodolives]

No, DB adjusts the potential to be hit for damage, not the damage itself.

Can't agree. A DB modifier of +50 (chain) means you're going to do a lot less damage on an equal attack roll than you would against leather (+20). Your adjusted attack rolls will be lower. Ergo, damage will be lower.

[Right Wing Wacko]

Oops
Just looked at the books...
Sorry
 I am using HB 11 and sometimes I mix elements of different systems up in my head.

I think you would really like HARPers Bazaar 11

[Right Wing Wacko]

Found this quote from Tim in another thread...


"Basically, the ML system presumes (i.e. deals damage as if) you are wearing Reinforced Leather of some type. The Armor adjustments reflect the damage absorbing capabilities of the armor, not their stopping power (i.e. their DB adjustment)."

Maybe that helps...