Topic: Best weapon for non-warriors in RMC (opinion)

[Nders]

I don't buy this idea about missile weapons, sorry.
Short answer: Agincourt.

or Crecy which was a great mix of unmounted knight melee and longbow missile fire combined with a french disdain for charging uphill.

Mix it up, that is afterall the best way to go about it. As for magic users most have some manner of ranged magic to aply in combat and as such I recon they should go for a melee weapon for those times when the formation colapses or if you insist on having ranged options pick a javelin as they can be thrown at your enemy from the relative safety of you fighting line and being a polearm weapon it can be applied from the second rank and thus keeps you away from imediate melee range. If you insist on having the option of using missile fire pick a weapon that can be used both in melee and as a thrown weapon, Javelin could do it but weapons like spear, warhammer or dagger are all valid choices.

[Ecthelion]

IMO it all depends on what type of character you want to play and sometimes also the other characters in the group. If possible from the group constellation, it is always nice to have the spellcaster learn a some ranks in a missile weapon. Personally I prefer the Composite Bow or the Sling over the Heavy Crossbow that was already mentioned. Both, Bow and Sling, allow firing every round, the Composite Bow has a Point Blank Bonus almost as good as the Heavy Crossbow, while the Sling OTOH can be fired with one hand, which allows Essence and Channeling users to cast spells if needed.

But sometimes it is also advantageous for the magic user to be able to defend himself in a melee. E.g. for a long time I played in a relatively small group where we were only three players. Often it was not possible for a spell caster to retreat to the second line and use his bow and he found himself instead in the midst of a melee. In such groups it was better to learn using a melee weapon instead of a missile weapon (Semi Spell Users could of course try to learn both). Then I prefer Mace and Short Sword since they have a low fumble range and the attack tables for these weapons are still quite OK. The Short Sword is weak against higher armor types, but then again against opponents wearing such armor it is - at least for a spell user - mostly necessary to do a full parry to survive at all, and then the weaker attack table does not matter much.

[Nders]

agreed completely

[rdanhenry]

Shield bash. Then you've got a big shield to protect yourself with the rest of the time.

[Skaran]

Have a spike mounted over the shields boss. Not only looks cool but can do some nice punctures.

[yammahoper]

A Sentinels battle axe.  Those demons weild a +20 Battle Axe with a built in four shot heavy crossbow.  I'm nice and don't apply the bonus most of the time against the players when the xbow is used, but since listed OB is 150, that's all I need to make some eyes bulge when I announce the +160 attack (+10 is for a normal/full action is RMSS/FRP).

[Nders]

True how could I forget the sentinel crosbow a wise choice. The tricky part is getting your hands on one though 

[kevinmccollum]

Where are you finding this sentinel demon besides the RMC1? The one in there doesn't have a battle axe with a built in crossbow.

[Marc R]

(If we're gonna go that route, the "Sword of Justice" out of CT is pretty good)

[yammahoper]

(If we're gonna go that route, the "Sword of Justice" out of CT is pretty good)

There is only one Sword of Justice.  There could be a few million Sentinel Battle Axes scatted across the planes. 

Creatures and Treasures, Warrior Demon section.

[Mhairtrym]

wait in that case i would still go with the mage's staff, was in one of the C&T.  Just remember it making the Staff of the magi seem like a toothpick.

[kevinmccollum]

I can't believe all of you have overlooked the main gauche. 1-1.5 pounds, fumble range of 2, and if just parrying or not attacking with it, you gain a +15 defensive bonus against melee. Great for caster types.

[Skarsgard]

Spear.

Reach + Initiative bonuses. Good damage.

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

Good damage.

...save against AT20 (which is an aberration since thrusting weapons are the best against full plates... even better than crushing weapons, after a level of armouring. One only has to study the evolution of the sword according to the evolution of armours to understand that).

Historically, the spear was an excellent weapon because of reach... and a bad "only" weapon because of that, because if the enemy closes you, the spear becomes pretty useless. It was why any spear unit also had a close range weapon (usually a sword), to finish off foes or use in close combat.

[markc]

 Also depending on the spear shaft an opponent could chop the head of the spear. Or the point may become stuck in armor or something else.

 But I agree a spear is a good basic weapon that should be able to be used by anyone. Or even better a group of anyones in formation.

MDC

[Nders]

Which is why the roman spears were made in one of two ways: 1 with a head that broke of when it hit the opponent and one with a metal shaft along the furthes point so that the last 2 feet of the weapon was metal.

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

But I agree a spear is a good basic weapon that should be able to be used by anyone.

While this is apparently true in reality, in RM2 (and I bet in RMC), the spear is IMO a pretty bad weapon (for a non-warrior at least, but probably for a warrior as well) because it only gives a small initiative bonus for being long but:

• Doesn't give the advantage of keep opponents at bay,
• Cannot parry non-polearm weapon with more than 50% OB,
• Is two-handed so can't provide the bonus of a shield,
• Is limited to a 'D' critical vs. AT20,
• Doesn't make significantly more damage than a one-handed weapon.

In fact, comparing it to the broadsword, the sword is imo way better.

[markc]

But I agree a spear is a good basic weapon that should be able to be used by anyone.

While this is apparently true in reality, in RM2 (and I bet in RMC), the spear is IMO a pretty bad weapon (for a non-warrior at least, but probably for a warrior as well) because it only gives a small initiative bonus for being long but:

• Doesn't give the advantage of keep opponents at bay,
• Cannot parry non-polearm weapon with more than 50% OB,
• Is two-handed so can't provide the bonus of a shield,
• Is limited to a 'D' critical vs. AT20,
• Doesn't make significantly more damage than a one-handed weapon.

In fact, comparing it to the broadsword, the sword is imo way better.

 I have not poped open my books but in general I agree with you. As I said above the hard part IMO is defining in game terms all the little stuff in hand to hand combat without bogging it down.

MDC

[damilano]

While this is apparently true in reality, in RM2 (and I bet in RMC), the spear is IMO a pretty bad weapon (for a non-warrior at least, but probably for a warrior as well) because it only gives a small initiative bonus for being long but:

• Doesn't give the advantage of keep opponents at bay,
• Cannot parry non-polearm weapon with more than 50% OB,
• Is two-handed so can't provide the bonus of a shield,
• Is limited to a 'D' critical vs. AT20,
• Doesn't make significantly more damage than a one-handed weapon.

Gents,

What about a combat skill to offset some of these disadvantages?

I saw a program on the history channel showing how some Visigoths may have used the spear (perhaps the info comes down through some Roman accounts?  Don't really know).  These Goths were freakin' AWESOME with the spear!

One technique was to hold the spear at the end and spin the thing around and around at neck level -- far faster than you can see.  Perhaps this could translate into a special spear style ("Gothic Spear" or "Spear Dance", whatever) which would

1.  Give a certain % chance to applying criticals to the neck
2.  Make it impossible to get within melee range for x rounds, allowing the user to survey the battlefield and choose his next target
3.  Provide an add to DB
4.  Frighten animals, negating certain mounted combat attacks (perhaps the beast would get a RR)

More research needs to be done here.  Lots of folks have used the spear and spear-like instruments.  It's very ancient, very simple, and very economical, and its use "cuts across" a variety of cultures (if you'll pardon the pun).  Many forms must have developed.  Please share what you know!

CMC

[Ecthelion]

Is two-handed so can't provide the bonus of a shield,

I don't think this is expressly stated in the rules. Indeed we used the handling we knew from the old ME RPG and allowed spear and javelin for one-handed use while e.g. the halberd could only be used two-handed. To me the only disadvantage of a spear is that it can't parry more than 50% against non-polearms. But this is only true as long as it is used without a shield. With a shield a spear-user can AFAIK parry normally, making the spear comparable to many other one-handed weapons. Its main advantage is IMO that it can be used at -10 from the second line of combat, making it a nice alternative for a Pure Spell User that does not want fight in the first line but still wants to be able to defend himself when forced to. No need to learn using a bow to fire from the second row and additionally learn using a melee weapon for self-defense, just learn using a spear and have both...