Author Topic: Warhammer 40,000 in Spacemaster Privateers  (Read 3225 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline vytzka

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 54
  • OIC Points +0/-0
  • The Lithuanian Psycho
Warhammer 40,000 in Spacemaster Privateers
« on: May 23, 2008, 03:28:05 AM »
Hello everybody.

Since some people said they were interested in a Warhammer 40,000 conversion, I decided I'll create this thread, to both share the things I already have, and discuss and formalize elements I'm still working or planning to work on.

I've settled upon Google Docs for the time being, in that they give me the largest amount of functionality with the least amount of effort to set up, share or manage permissions for viewing and editing. If someone wants to suggest anything better they're welcome to.

I'll post the finished (or reasonably finished) documents in this title post when I'm done with them.

Chapter 1 - They are my Space Marines and they shall know no fear (design notes post forthcoming sometime soon)
« Last Edit: May 23, 2008, 03:36:44 AM by vytzka »
"Traveller fans don't like Traveller so it's very hard to please them.  Oh they may like a specific race or a specific time period, or a specific rule set except for 25% of the pages determined randomly by rolling 2d6 and trying to read them as percentiles. "
 - David Johansen

Offline ironmaul

  • Senior Adept
  • **
  • Posts: 719
  • OIC Points +0/-0
  • I'll work for free, if you can pay all my debts.
    • The Art of Rick Hansen
Re: Warhammer 40,000 in Spacemaster Privateers
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2008, 06:14:18 AM »
G'day V, I must say I love the Talents and Flaws list  8) I'll be watching the progress with interest.

Offline markc

  • Elder Loremaster
  • ****
  • Posts: 10,697
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Warhammer 40,000 in Spacemaster Privateers
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2008, 07:31:56 PM »
 I like it but IMO Space marines are not 1st level characters. I do not want to tell you how to run your game but I might have the PC's start out at 4th or 5th level with the 4th level PC's geting more TP's than the 5th level.

 I enjoyed the read please keep us updated when you add more material.

MDC
Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.

Offline vytzka

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 54
  • OIC Points +0/-0
  • The Lithuanian Psycho
Re: Warhammer 40,000 in Spacemaster Privateers
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2008, 04:05:35 AM »
Chapter 1 - Space Marines

There are really two ways of representing Space Marines in games set in the 40k universe.

One is the "balanced" way where Space Marines are more in line with other denizens of the setting, either because you want to incorporate them easier into parties composed largely of other humans, or because you emphasize the "enemies'" point of view where Space Marines are supposed to bow down to the superior might of non-human beings. An extreme example is the Fire Warrior video game, where a single Tau Fire Warrior managed to slaughter something like a company of Space Marines and IIRC a Dreadnought all by himself.

The other is the "fluffy" way, where Space Marines can eat, literally (cf. Omophagea implant), just about anything and everything. Now the "fluff" itself is an extremely problematic issue with 40k, having been subjected to countless retcons and direction changes, not even getting into the mess that is Black Library novels*. But in almost all occasions Space Marines are represented as quite  literally superhuman.

I'll let it be known that I love Space Marines. Not because of the wish fulfillment angle - on the contrary, I find it very difficult to personally identify with one. But they really personify the Warhammer 40,000 universe to me by representing the same path Mankind have gone in the far future - sacrificing a lot of their humanity to at least have a small hope of overcoming the odds that would look impossible for us here today.

(As you can see, I find Mankind and the Imperium very fascinating and thought-provoking on a philosophical level, but I'll leave that for later. Sadly, this hasn't been explored much in the recent years, being abandoned in favor of the TOTALMETALWAR stuff, which, while fine by itself, is a different thing altogether.)

So there's no doubt that I went the second route, making Space Marines as powerful in comparison to normal, "real" people as appropriate to the Imperial accounts. That means they're not nearly close in their combat capabilities to a usual first level Soldier (especially as I prefer to use the BO option of buying Talents and not Talent Points) - and that's how it should be!

markc, I wanted to say the same thing that you did :) Space Marines aren't really first level characters. I feel that a Space Marine would get promoted from Scout to a full fledged Marine somewhere around level 4 to 7, then to a Veteran somewhere around 12 to 15 and the highest ranking Chapter officials should usually be somewhere between 20 and 30, with Mephiston the Lord of Death, the most powerful Marine Librarian in the 41st millenium, scraping the 50. In comparison, Grey Knights probably only embark on active duty by level 10 to 12, Grey Knight Terminators and Adeptus Custodes are above level 20 each, with their officals somewhere above 30 at least. Primarchs were in the Silmarillion levels of Elven lords of old with the Emperor and the Ruinous Powers somewhere on par with Valar.

In the grim darkness of the 41st Millenium there is only war. And Space Marines get a lot of practice.

Not that it's impossible to roleplay a Space Marine in their training. Far from it - in my opinion that would be an extremely interesting roleplaying experience.

In that case you should split the starting list of talents into several parts (remember that the implants are introduced in the order listed) and give part of the benefits to PCs each level until they're fully grown, matured and ready to kick (even more) ass.

That's actually how I tried to implement the implants in one of the older versions of this system, before I settled on the present one. The character gets a (relatively modest) set of starting talents and then gains levels, while also paying EP cost for the implants gained (1 TP = 1,000 EP). A fully developed level 7 Space Marine would thus need as many EPs as a different character for advancing to level 13.

The talent list isn't exactly the same as with the new one, by the way. Since you won't use both systems in the same game it's not that bad, though I should probably try and bring it up to date with the new version.

You can see the old system (as well as a couple of really old ones) here.

[insert stuff I forgot about but will hopefully remember and add]

*The authors who can write reasonably well often don't have the best idea of the setting (Abnett, though he got better during the years - or at least subjected to better quality control), those who do aren't much of writers (Graham McNeil), some just flat out suck (CS Goto) and people who have both (Ian Watson) don't work there anymore. Therefore Black Library novels are explicitly non-canon in my games, unless individually approved.

Upcoming: A weapon cannot substitute for zeal.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2008, 04:16:03 AM by vytzka »
"Traveller fans don't like Traveller so it's very hard to please them.  Oh they may like a specific race or a specific time period, or a specific rule set except for 25% of the pages determined randomly by rolling 2d6 and trying to read them as percentiles. "
 - David Johansen

Offline markc

  • Elder Loremaster
  • ****
  • Posts: 10,697
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Warhammer 40,000 in Spacemaster Privateers
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2008, 07:03:27 PM »
 I agree that there are some BL books about space marines that are great and some are not. I do like Abnet but his style does take a little getting used to. I do have the mass combat game [I think] but I will have to find it. Also I do not have any of the army books so my experience is mainly from ficton, the old rule book and some great deals on close out stuff. I thought about getting into the game but I decided I did not have enough $ to compete.

 Also is it not on the release list for W40K DH a space marines suppliment? I thought it was in Sept or somthing but I could be wrong. Also one statment in the DH book talkes about how space marines are way above DH PC's.

MDC

Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.

Offline vytzka

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 54
  • OIC Points +0/-0
  • The Lithuanian Psycho
Re: Warhammer 40,000 in Spacemaster Privateers
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2008, 07:02:09 AM »
Dark Heresy is just the first one of the three supposed lines of the Warhammer 40,000 games. Second is Rogue Trader (that should have come out in Fall 2009 by the original plan but God help us all now that FFG took over the publishing) and third is Deathwatch that's supposed to contain Space Marines. They are indeed way above the capabilities of normal humans that are Dark Heresy acolytes (there's a Space Marine character in the Purge The Unclean adventure which I haven't got yet).

There is a host of free information regarding Warhammer 40,000 setting, a lot of it official and hosted by Games Workshop themselves.

Official wargame background info.

Specialist Games, with downloadable rules and articles: Epic: Armageddon, Battlefleet Gothic, Inquisitor and Necromunda (latter two particularly relevant as they're almost-but-not-entirely-RPG's).

Last, but not the least, there's the Fluff Bible we never speak of.
"Traveller fans don't like Traveller so it's very hard to please them.  Oh they may like a specific race or a specific time period, or a specific rule set except for 25% of the pages determined randomly by rolling 2d6 and trying to read them as percentiles. "
 - David Johansen

Offline markc

  • Elder Loremaster
  • ****
  • Posts: 10,697
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Warhammer 40,000 in Spacemaster Privateers
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2008, 07:00:36 PM »
 Thanks I will check those out when I have a chance.

 Also I have to note that the fiction would drive my W40K campaign as most of the good books I have read gave me a great look into a "dark" setting. I can also asy that my old WH RPG game and adventures from the 80's provide a great look into "dark" europe. I know the WH "World" has changed dramaticly since the 80's and I have not keeped up. But I have had a chance to go back and read the adventures lately and like quite a few parts of them.

MDC
Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.