Author Topic: Newbie looking for information  (Read 4546 times)

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Offline Carnus

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Newbie looking for information
« on: December 06, 2007, 05:21:54 PM »
Hi guys

I have been roleplaying for around 17 years. I have played many many games but my groups default fantasy game has always been D&D. Over the past 5 years we have played it exclusively and over that time we have found more and more limitations with the system and the style of play that D&D promotes, and with the announcement of 4th edition it is the straw that broke the camels back. So to cut a long story short, I am looking for another fantasy RPG to take its place.

I played a few games of Rolemaster in the early nineties and still remember them fondly (if only we had a dedicated RM DM back then).

I need a few answers from you guys before I make my decision on what system to choose.

Why should I choose Rolemaster as my groups Fantasy RPG. Sell it too me, give me what makes it great and why you guys still play and love it?

Are there rules that are not as polished as others and stand out during game play?

How does Rolemaster compare to other classic RPG's which have been re-released like Runequest?

And last but not least if I choose Rolemaster which books are a must purchase and the bit that confuses me is do I go RM classic or RMFRPG? (I think thatÂ’s the correct acronym)

Thank you in advance for your time guys in helping me out.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2007, 08:27:36 PM by Carnus »

Offline maikeru

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Re: Newbie looking for information
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2007, 06:39:17 PM »
Well, as an unbiased view, and member of the RMC team. I would probably recommend RMC. Especially if you have fond memories of RM2.

To clarify my unbiasedness, I joined the RMC team as a newb. I have never played RM except a brief game of MERP.  I have come to love it, since I had to read it, and re-read it and so on and so forth.

As far as what books you should invest in. I would start with Rolemaster Express. For only around $10 you can get a feel of it and let your group give it a shot, and then invest into the other books.

On the other hand, I am pretty peeved at the 4th ed announcement, especially since I have a whole book shelf of 3.0/3.5 stuff. When 3.0 when to 3.5 it broke my my proverbial back, (also my back is literally broken but that is another story.)

But for me, I didn't choose RM. I chose HARP, and you can download HARP Lite for free from http://www.harphq.com - It is a bit easier than RM and a bit closer to d20. I have gotten die hard d20 fans to play HARP, and guess what they loved it.

Besides the ranting, my recommendations are:

Rolemaster Express - >$10 and a very solid intro for d20 players to get into RMC.
Harp Lite - Free and a lot easier for d20 players to transition to.

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Offline markc

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Re: Newbie looking for information
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2007, 07:13:22 PM »
 First,
  Welcome to the forums.
 
 Brent Knorr has a webpage listed in the vault that answers a lot of the Q's you are asking. As to how it stacks up against the new release of RQ, I can say I was not a fan of the new RQ but I only looked at the main book. I can also say I am a fan of RMSS [RMFRP is a slightly updated version but split into more books] and I would get the PDF's and print the pages you want to give your PC's. You tend to do a lot of this especially with weapon charts. IMO I would get RMSS, Spell Law, Chan Comp. Ess Comp. Ment Comp and Creatures book. That will give you all the rules you need to fully flush out an amazing world. If you are looking for a 1 shot campain or less detail I woudl get the revision of RM2 either RMX or RMC.

 If you have any more Q's send them along.

MDC
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Offline Carnus

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Re: Newbie looking for information
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2007, 08:51:48 PM »
Thanks for the replies guys.

I am not really too fussed with finding something too simillar to D&D as my players are Role playing veterans and have played most RPG systems so they will be able to cope with something different.

I will check out HARP lite as you suggested.

I am still a bit confused with all the different editions of Role Master and the differences between them.

Lastly I went to Brent Knorr's website but alas I couldn't find the articles which answer my questions :(

I haven?t decided which way I want to go with a new game, if I want to use it to create my own game world or just run a ready made one. I am always keen to design my own world but then the Real Life time factor kicks in
:).

Offline ob1knorrb

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Re: Newbie looking for information
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2007, 10:24:35 PM »
The article that might of the most use is if you want to know what the differences between Rolemaster Standard System (RMSS) and Rolemaster Fantasy Roleplaying (RMFRP) are.  That one is here:
http://www.icewebring.com/rmss-vs-rmfrp/

The other frequently referred to article is a general overview of Rolemaster, although I haven't updated it to include Rolemaster Classic and Rolemaster Express yet.  That one is here:
http://www.icewebring.com/what-is-rolemaster/

Hope those help somewhat.
Brent Knorr...
Ringmaster:ICE Roleplaying Webring - http://www.icewebring.com

Offline markc

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Re: Newbie looking for information
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2007, 11:44:09 PM »
 RMC and RMX are an updated versions of RM2, RMX being a very light version of RMC.

 The one thing about RM is thier is not a lot of premade worlds out thier so you may have to do some adapting. Which is not a problem as I do it all the time. The worlds that are outr thier are Shadow World and Echoes of Heaven and Craydon is to be adapted some time next year [but do not hold me to ICE's timelines].

MDC
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Offline pastaav

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Re: Newbie looking for information
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2007, 08:37:30 AM »
Why should I choose Rolemaster as my groups Fantasy RPG. Sell it too me, give me what makes it great and why you guys still play and love it?

Basic idea of RM is anyone can with enough luck kill anyone. Superior skill increase the likelihood that you survive, but superior numbers and superior tactics is what really counts when a battle is decided.

What this mean in practice:
*The high level character does not become so powerful that he can ignore a peasant or a goblin that want to kill him.
*The city guard with a crossbow that orders somebody to stand still will probably be obeyed (in less intelligent games systems the players says...crossbow only makes about X in damage and we have more, let us rush him)
*The player group can challenge a dragon, demonlord or similar entity and have a fair chance of winning
*The dragon challenged by pesky adventurers has a fair chance to maim or kill many of the the attackers. If the attackers are stupid or the dragon have minions the dragon will probably defeat them all.
*Manuevers in the game can be assigned arbitrary difficulty...one in a million attempts can be handled while you in other games can not bend the game engine into allowing such.

What all this boils down to is that RM gives you exciting adventures because the game system does not impose restrictions on what can happen in the adventure of the form "No way the high level king can become killed by single arrow from a rooftop".

The actual game effects of banging a mace into a plate mail is not realistic compared to real world damage such would cause, but it is suitability detailed so that the successrate of mace attacks give outcomes that could happen in a movie that felt hollywood "realistic".
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Offline Mr. Fixit

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Re: Newbie looking for information
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2007, 11:35:26 AM »
Carnus, welcome!
Don't be worried about your confusion with the different RM versions; it happens to all newcomers and is part of the learning curve (and is about the only negative aspect of RM in my opinion).
I can agree with the above posts and affirm that HARP is the closest to D&D in terms of style and presentation, but if (as you say) you are not concerned with similarity, I think you will come to enjoy RM a great deal, no matter which version you settle on.
I am a RMFRP GM, but that is only due to the fact that this was the version being sold at my local game store.  I have heard tell from others on these boards that RMFRP is the more granular and detailed, but having never read thru RMC, I must trust to the judgement of the more well informed.
But to answer you questions.
Why do I love it?- I was hooked by the ability to create ANY character I could think of in terms of skills and flavor; and have those skills and flavor MATTER.  Due to RMFRP's Skill system and the way it works with the Professions (Classes in D&Dspeak), not to mention the Training Packages (both Lifestyle and Vocational)- every character is unique.  No two level 1 Fighters are the same-EVER. 
As far as "stand out rules"- You may find, as I have, that the rules for combat are as revolutionary today as they were back in their inception. With that said, there can be alot of variation within those rules and the combat system is very often discussed within these boards. To use Arms Law or not, for example or, is the Armor Type system properly balanced. These are questions which I have noticed come up quite often, but I think only a great combat system would generate this type of debate and it is by no means a detractor from RM as a whole.
I can't say that I am properly prepared to answer your question about RM as compared to other re-released games, but I will say this: it was a revolutionary system when it was born and is constantly evolving, but I think it has always retained its identity. 
I was introduced to ICE thru MERP years ago, and came back to it after a long absence from gaming when HARP was introduced.  HARP got me back into the ICE world and ultimately Rolemaster books began filling in my bookshelf. I get frustrated at times with the many faces of RM (RMFRP/RMSS, RMC/RM2, RMX), but I still have yet to find anything that inspires me to create worlds and scenarios the way this game does.
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Offline RandalThor

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Re: Newbie looking for information
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2007, 05:51:20 PM »
The main reason I have over the years constantly tried to get others into RM is because when I play this game it feels the most "real." I don't have to perform actions based upon specific rules, but upon the actual situation my character is in. The example above with the crossbow is a pwerfect example, but here's another one: You are Jax the 15th level fighter and you are trying to escape the evil lords clutches (we will not even go into how you were taken captive when it is really hard in the game-that-shall-not-be-named to be taken alive and stripped of all your stuff). Running to the end of a hall, you come to a balcony overlooking the courtyard. The 50' below you stone courtyard*. What do you do? If you say jump, take the damage, and run away, then this game is not for you. The idea that because you have enough hit points you can just drop 50' to a stone floor and then run away is too unrealistic for me. I get enough of the fiction/fantasy from playing a bladesmaster/wizard/thief/whatever dealing with magical creatures and stuff.

*This is also assuming that you have no magics that let you "fall like a feather" or other such things.

Also, when I get done making a character he/she feels "3-D." Not a cardboard cut-out like other games, but a fully fleshed out individual with strengths & weaknesses. Not to mention that they feel as though they actually belong to the world/society/race they are. With adolescent development and hobby ranks, the character can actually fit where they come from, not so in the game-that-shall-not-be-named where you are your profession/class first and foremost - all else is a very distant second, third, etc.

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Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Newbie looking for information
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2007, 09:11:59 PM »
I have been roleplaying for around 17 years. I have played many many games but my groups default fantasy game has always been D&D. Over the past 5 years we have played it exclusively and over that time we have found more and more limitations with the system and the style of play that D&D promotes, and with the announcement of 4th edition it is the straw that broke the camels back. So to cut a long story short, I am looking for another fantasy RPG to take its place.

You know, you sound like my group. We played D&D starting in 6th/7th Grade and continued to until a year or two after High School Graduation. Like you we started to feel more and more limited by D&D and wanted something with more detail and scope. After effectively 'splitting up' and searching each on our own (and we took like 6-9months to do this) I came back to the group with MERP... they were sold on the basics, we ran a couple test combat sessions and that resulted in the first game fully run with ICE materials (MERP). We had in the past, used some of the RM2 materials to add on to D&D and didn't realize it until a little later.

As a funny aside, ironically enough the place I did my research was at Wizards of the Coast. They had a big lobby at their headquarters that had a RPG library in it, so I spend a couple days up there looking through all the various systems.


Quote
Why should I choose Rolemaster as my groups Fantasy RPG. Sell it too me, give me what makes it great and why you guys still play and love it?

Because a Fireball doesn't do a range of 6d6 in damage. It does: 24 points of damage and a 'C' crit that results in 8 more points of damage and your shield is on fire. Take 3 burning points per round until you drop it or put it out.

Because the Paladin, Ranger, Cleric, and any other class that falls into that spell group don't select spells from the same damn pool. They each have a customized set of six spell lists with around 25 spells each.

Because I don't have to be a Fighter/Theif, I can be a Rogue. I don't have to be a Fighter/Mage, I can be a Warrior Mage. I don't have to be a Thief/Mage, I can be a Dabbler. Whatever cross-breed you can think of, it probably exists as a single class within Rolemaster.

Because I choose when I get better with my sword and when I learn a spell.

Because my mage can pick up a dang sword and learn how to swing it if he really wants to.

How long should I go on? ;)


Quote
Are there rules that are not as polished as others and stand out during game play?

Exhaustion. It's rare to find a Rolemaster user that likes then let alone actually uses them.

Something that is important (really in any game though) is make sure you're players are on the ball. If and when you start a game pose the question of how people setup their characters, what they have the GM track and the players track, etc. There are some very helpful things that each player can do to make the game move along quicker apart from just plain old paying attention.


Quote
How does Rolemaster compare to other classic RPG's which have been re-released like Runequest?

Rolemaster has had it's share of re-releases, but really it comes down to two versions that are fairly compatible. Enough so that once you've learned the basics of both versions you can pretty much convert things over by 'eyeballing' them. You don't need a conversion chart on hand.


Quote
And last but not least if I choose Rolemaster which books are a must purchase and the bit that confuses me is do I go RM classic or RMFRPG? (I think that?s the correct acronym)

There's the question of the decade. The real choice is RM2/RMC or RMSS/RMFRP. Once you decide which of those to go with then you need to ask which books. There are fans of both that will give you their opinions of which is better or worse or which is supported more or less and so on.

I'm an RMSS fan, but that's because it's what I have almost always used (and even written for). If I had 'grown up' played RM2 I'd probably prefer it and would have been back-converting things I liked in RMSS.

At this point, I personally think it's a toss up. I have a sneaking suspicion that RMClassic is probably the easiest one to pick up and learn right now, while RMSS/RMFRP have the most total materials available.


Quote
Thank you in advance for your time guys in helping me out.

No problem at all, ask all the questions you want... even the ones you think we'll think are silly. We love former D&D players (at least the ones that don't come in here posting "Rulemaster sucks! Look at all those charts! Geez, you need a science calculator to play that game!").
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Offline David Johansen

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Re: Newbie looking for information
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2007, 09:34:59 PM »
You say that like it's a bad thing.

Offline markc

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Re: Newbie looking for information
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2007, 12:10:21 AM »
CM,
 "...We love former D&D players."

 I think the RM group of people have played many different systems and stoped looking because they found the one that does it for them. Some like RQ, WoD etc it really depends on your playing style and your group. I like RM because of the reasons CM talked about and because I can customize it how I want; to fit the universe I want; to tell the story I want. But as a GM you need to do your homework to make it turn out well. As a GM I allways have trouble explaining new universal professions, spell list etc so I try and get most everything I need, take a look at it and decide what to include and what not to. In fact I generally tell my PC's we are running 3-6 test games so I can see if anything is broken or not. So your PC's may change, comabt may change, stuff may change and it will be for the better as I am a story teller. Is is not all of you against me and the rules.

Hope that helps
MDC

BTW, exasution is a lot of bookkeeping, when people are flying have them roll acrobatics to control flight, thier is only 1 attack per round but that attack is feighting, thrusts. foot movement etc in 10 seconds, [some have shortened the round to 2-4 sec and it work ok if you do not like all the dancing], Power Points rock compaired to spell picks, everyone can learn every skill it just costs some professions less than others and almost anyone can open end high and kill you no matter how many hits you have left on your sheet.

 A side note the RMC Combat Companion comes out sometime next year and possibly could have a dramatic change in your story and how people create thier PC's. I wmight run a few test games with test PC's for them  to get the feel of things.
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Offline Carnus

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Re: Newbie looking for information
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2007, 04:27:28 PM »
Thanks for all the great responses.

I have spent the weekend doing research and I have decided to go with RMC as it was the edition I played a few games in many many moons ago. I am keen to pick up all the books from my LGS next weekend.

I cant wait to get them and start writing up my world. I am also very glad to hear about how developed Rolemaster characters become, one of my biggest issues with D&D3.5 was the fact that their game play promotes characters to be nothing more than a bunch of items and stats on a page.

A game where characters can actually be captured without being killed :o running this game will be fun  ;D

Also I went into the basement and dug up my old MERP box and Spell Lore 2nd edition to show my wife (she is one of the players in our group and of course being my wife she also has a say in which systems we will play :) )

I was pleased to see her reading through Spell Lore and getting very excited about the spells within. I myself was also getting excited, I love what I class as Utility spells (very handy spells that do not just have a direct combat purpose) and Rolemaster seems to be full of them :) plus after read the Evil Cleric lists I was thinking how fantastic the spells were and how if you are going to face one in a campaign you will not just be worried about getting killed but more worried about surviving and suffering from some nasty curses and bearing some nasty diseases. It?s that kind of fear that is lacking in D&D.

The other RPG's we played Shadowrun/White-wolf games/Deadlands they all promoted roleplaying and fun, finally it looks like our new fantasy rpg "Rolemaster" will do the same.

Offline Rasyr-Mjolnir

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Re: Newbie looking for information
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2007, 05:05:48 PM »
If I may make a suggestion - get a copy of RM Express (the PDF will work just fine), because it does contain a few options (optional hit point rules, and optional PP rules) that will make things a bit easier for low level characters without making the game into a D&D clone.  ;D

Also, please be aware that the RMC Spell Law changes quite a few spells, it got rid of Passive spells, and moved them all to either Utility or Informational, and gives both those types better clarification regarding resolution (i.e. what spells get RRs and so forth).


Offline Temujin

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Re: Newbie looking for information
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2007, 09:10:01 PM »
I love Rolemaster because of the uniqueness of the characters.  I play RPGs to play different characters, and occasionally to tell stories, and Rolemaster allows me to do just that, more than D&D used to do.

Offline Carnus

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Re: Newbie looking for information
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2007, 09:16:05 PM »
If I may make a suggestion - get a copy of RM Express (the PDF will work just fine), because it does contain a few options (optional hit point rules, and optional PP rules) that will make things a bit easier for low level characters without making the game into a D&D clone.  ;D

So RM express has some nice optional rules that work well in RMC?

sorry still a bit confused with all the editions and compatibility between them.

Offline Rasyr-Mjolnir

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Re: Newbie looking for information
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2007, 09:48:20 PM »
Rolemaster Express is basically the core RMC rules with a few "usability" options enacted.

The teaser in this thread -- http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?topic=4360.0  -- includes the list of differences between RMC and RMX.


Offline Marc R

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Re: Newbie looking for information
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2007, 11:17:25 PM »
It's the cheapest buy in, simplest to use, and has a few new items particularly tailored for low level characters.

Other bennie is that you can use it as one book, but then as you find you want more, you can expand just the element you want more of.

Like:

Want more detailed and extensive combats. . .buy Arms Law.
Want more detailed characters and more character choices . . .buy Character Law.
Want more monsters, magic items and races to use. . .buy Creatures & Treasures.
Want more spells and magic. . .buy Spell Law.

Getting RMC you need all 4 of those books, so you get a full serving of each. If you get RMX you get a small portion of each, and can then expand in the directions you want, when you want.
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Offline GoblynByte

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Re: Newbie looking for information
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2007, 08:04:14 AM »
Why should I choose Rolemaster as my groups Fantasy RPG. Sell it too me, give me what makes it great and why you guys still play and love it?

To get girls!!  ;D

But seriously, I would agree with some of the others and say start with HARP first.  It's an excellent game and really gives you a taste of what the Rolemaster concept of gaming is all about.  It's also a smaller, cheaper bite into a much larger, more expensive world.  You can start with HARP Lite for free, but you could also move into the full version of HARP for just $25 and get a lot of skills, spells, creatures, and treasures all in one very cool book.  I would also recomend picking up he GM screen for HARP.  There arne't a lot of charts in HARP (when compared to RM), but having them collected in one location is convenient beyond explenation.

If you like HARP (and ultimately find it restrictive...which I don't) you could then, maybe, add Arms Law to it.  Once you do that you might look into switching full blown into RM.  As for which RM system to use I can't say.  That's a question I've been exploring for about a year now and, while I've educated myself on both systems quite a bit, I'm not really any closer to making a decision.  They both (RMC and RMFRP) have their high points and low points and I have a tough time figuring out which is better.

Good luck and welcome!  The best thing about RM and ICE are the fans and game developers that frequent these boards.  You'll rarely find a more welcoming bunch of folks with a greater appreciation for their hobby than you will here.  And the designers are just as involved as the players.  Can't beat that!
A man said to the universe:
"Sir I exist!"
"However," replied the universe,
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A sense of obligation."
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Offline Carnus

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Re: Newbie looking for information
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2007, 07:35:42 PM »
Thanks for all the info.

I just put my order in for all the RMC books in Hardcover so hopefully I get them in my grubby little hands before Christmas  :D (I don't do things by half  ;) )

I also got the RMX PDF and will go through all the optional rules available and see which ones to add in.

Well once again thanks for all the info I will be joining your ranks now and you will be seeing allot more posts from me, thank you for the warm welcome.