Topic: "Rolemaster Classic: Character Law" Options Poll

[Marc R]

Which options would you use in your game if you were GM? Which ones do you like? Vote and explain.

(Due to the nature of the poll system, the percentages reflect the percentage of total votes, not the percentage of respondants that liked that particular option. Compare the votes to "total votes" on the lower left as a gauge of popularity.)

Option 1: Power Points Based On Stat Bonus
Basing PP gained on bonus, rather than stat, this allows race, background options, injuries and other factors to affect PP.

Option 2: Professions Versus Realms Of Power
Switching realms on professions, so you could have an Essence Ranger, or a Channeling Monk.

Option 3: Animists As Herb Specialists
Animists get bonuses to potency and effectiveness of herbs they use.

Option 4: Dwarven Alchemists As Channeling Users.
To fix the "dead brick in the Essence field" problem that makes Elves great Alchemists, and Dwarves awful ones, this optional profession uses the Cleric profession DP costs using the Alchemist base lists. (Swapping Channeling for "Essence Embedding" and Essence/Mentalism for "Channeling/Mentalism embedding.")

Option 5: Mentalism Monks & Essence Bards. The ?Monk / Bard? Controversy
Swapping the Monk and Bard's realms to create two alternate profession versions.

Option 6: The ?No Profession? Profession
A semi spell user with generic, middle of the road costs.

Option 7: Random Height, Weight, And Size
Tables for generating body size and form for the core rules races. (Trolls are, um, BIG).

Option 8.1: Alternative Stat Generation Method 1 (Random-Fixed)
Roll your ten stats, and place them in that order.

Option 8.2: Alternative Stat Generation Method 2 (Three Column Method)
Roll three columns of stats, pick one as temp stats, one as potentials, and discard the third.

Option 9: Background Options
Talents, special training, special abilties, special wealth and special status your character brings into the game.

Option 10: Hobbies
6 free ranks: 4 ranks in a primary hobby, 2 in a secondary hobby, neither can cost 20 DP or more per rank.

Option 11.1: Additional Requirements For Skill Acquisition
GM requires a tutor, trainer, library, lab, practice or any other factor beyond "Level up, Get DP, Spend DP, get skill."

Option 11.2: Partial Skill Acquisition At Half-Level
Allows characters to buy ranks in three critical skills between levels rather than waiting for full level, the DP cost is paid at the next level up.

Option 11.3: Practice For One Skill Rank Each Half-Level
One free rank in an under 20 DP skill purchased between levels in the form of extensive training or practice.

Option 12.1: Development Points Based On Stat Bonus
Basing DP gained on bonus, rather than stat, this allows race, background options, injuries and other factors to affect DP.

Option 12.2: Flat Development Points
Using a flat, set number of DP per level (40 is suggested) to cut stats out as a factor in DP.

Option 12.3: Additional Development Points For Secondary Skills
+25% DP if the full set of secondary skills is used.

Option 13.1: Weapon Skills For Similar Weapons 1 (Half Bonus)
Tables of similar weapons, you may use half bonus for weapons similar to ones you have ranks in.

Option 13.2: Weapon Skills For Similar Weapons 2 (Half Rank)
Tables of similar weapons, you may use half ranks to get bonus for weapons similar to ones you have ranks in.

Option 14: Riding Skills For Similar Animals
Using either half bonus or half ranks, you may use "Riding:Horse" for "Riding:Mule" or any other similar animal groupings.

Option 15: Stat Bonuses For Spell Gain Rolls
Get your primary casting stat bonus added to Spell List Aquisition rolls.

Option 16: Channeling Burnout When Using Spell Law
Adds in the "Spell Failure" table to the penalties for channeling burnout, either in addition, or in place of temp stat loss.

Option 17: Power Point Development (Sp)
Earn PP by buying ranks in PPD rather than it being a PP factor x level development. (With this option active, you get 0 PP if you have no ranks in this skill, potential is not unlocked.)

Option 18: Adding New Skills
Basics of adding skills into play.

Option 19: Secondary Skills
ICE's suggested list of added skills beyond the core, primary skills.

Option 20: Equipment Size
Basing equipment size on character size, and rules on who can wear them, and how to modify gear to change its size.

Option 21: More Experience Point Suggestions
Expanded guidelines for EXP, Criticals, Kills, Travel, Ideas, etc.

Option 22: Extra Stat Gain Rolls
Spend 5 DP to get an extra stat gain roll in a single stat. (Hitting the Gym/Library option)

Option 23: Stat Reduction Due To Old Age
Once you close in on max age, you start to degrade.

Option 24.1: Expanded Level Bonuses For Professions (RM2)
Original RM2 expanded level bonus guidelines. (Note: ChL, not the RMC2 expansion.)

Option 24.2: Expanded Level Bonuses For Professions (RMSS Conversion Friendly)
Spread of Level bonuses based on the RMSS/FRP skill categories. (Major categories, minor categories have been folded in.)

Option 24.3: Stepped Level Bonuses For Professions
Progression of stat bonuses at 1st, 10th, 20th levels, that then remain fixed at the 20th level point. A "Halfway" point between RM2 and RMSS, with higher starting bonuses, but additional infusions as you crest 10th and 20th levels.

Option 24.4: Static Level Bonuses For Professions
Stat bonuses fixed for all characters as if they were 10th level. (Essentially the RMSS/FRP bonuses doubled.)

Option 25: An Alternative Static Maneuver Table
Factors in things like lighting, injury, etc.

Option 26: Hiding And Stalking Versus Perception (Opposed Skills)
Rather than one skill operating on it's own, using one skill against another.

Option 27: Quickness & Agility For Base Movement Rate
Average Ag and Qu for movement rate, rather than just quickness.

[Marc R]

Having played quite a bit of RM2, and spent a lot of time reading these options over and over, I'll give my opinions here, but some of the new options I'm going to vote for, might fall out of favor with me if they prove not to work in play. (Similarly, some of the ones I say I don't like, might end up in my games later.) For this reason, I'm leaving this poll unlocked, so any of us can change our minds and change our votes.

I like Option 1.
It ties race and other factors into power point development. If your race has a bonus or penalty to the controlling realm stat, this is a good way to reflect the affinity or disadvantage that creates for a character. It also allows factors like Background Options, Injuries, Curses, spell effects, or anything else that changes a stat bonus to have an effect on PP.

I have mixed feelings about Option 2.
I think it is a good idea to be able to change realm for a profession, but working with Brent on the mechanics of DP costs has deepened my understanding of the fact that realm status affects skill costs, simply changing realm is not enough, a number of skill cost factors should be tweaked when changing the realm of a profession.

I like Option 4
Good example of option 2. Cleric skill costs, alchemist type lists, means it will cost out properly.

I like Option 6
Ictus has run some games using this as the ONLY profession. It's an interesting concept, and a nice alternative to the Rogue for a Jack-of-all-trades.

Mixed feelings on 7
I won't use random, I'll let players take what they want, on the other hand, the table for this gives excellent ranges and suggestions for turning "I want to play a tall, lean troll" into inches and pounds.

I like 9
These are cool quirks and details to distinguish characters a bit more. (GM should pay attention to them though.)

Mixed on 10
Getting 6 ranks regardless of DP costs can often be a rule end run, but can also be cool. (Useable with GM attention.)

Definite yes on 11.1
Some skills you can get on your own, or raise on your own, but sometimes you need a tutor, or training time, or a library.

Yes on 12.1
Same reasons as my yes on option 1

Mixed on 12.3
Depends on the kind of game I am running, I might allow extra DP, I might not. (A game needing a lot of non adventuring skills might need this, similarly a solo game might.)

Yes to 13.2
I'm OK with the 20 rank broadsword fighter being pretty good with a shortsword too.

Yes to 14
Horse and Mule are not the same, nor is a Unicorn, but they're not totally different either.

(Kicking the evil genie of similar skills back into the bottle, that's as far as I'll go.)

Mixed on 15
Yes in high end magic games, no otherwise.

Yes on 16
Burn, burn. . . .spectacular failure can be fun too.

Yes on 17
You may have innate latent power, but you need to learn to tap into it.

Yes to 18
Rough guidline of a 2/5 cost is a good place to start.

Yes to 19
More skills the merrier, though I will try to keep control over it. (This list is not badly inflated.)

Mixed on 20
Won't necissarily use these rules, but the idea is right, and I'd use the ideas here balanced with a liberal dose of my own in play. (Similar to 7)

Yes to 23
Sucks to get old, where did 20 go?

yes to 24.2
Ictus, back off with the stake and kindling. . .I like these categories better, splitting martial arts from weapons, and both from maneuver in armor and combat maneuvers is a good thing. . . .and I HATE "General" skill categories, it's intellecually lazy, and doesn't really mean anything.

Yes to 25
As guidelines, helpful in GMing, but not a hard, fixed rules.

Yes to 26
How skills oppose each other is important, and I like this method.

[ictus]

Options.

Well I pick and choose and don't always stick with my choices, so in one game I may want Non Prof Prof only characters to create a level playing field, in another I may prefer to use all the classes.

I will always be using Power Point Dev, as I always thought there where too few points for casting, which meant magic users didn't get involved much until they got to higher level, this way they are more likely to use spell points for more mundane things like starting a fire, or detecting magic.

I love background options and hobbies to add flavor to a character, though this may be picked rather than random should a player have a specific character concept in mind. Likewise with random height and weight.

The thing is sometimes you have a concept you want to create so you select background options height weight and anything else you wish, but sometimes you can let the dice create the character and simply have fun playing something you didn't expect to be playing developing it in a way you may not have envisaged.

That's my reason for not being hard and fast with such options.

I also like the added depth of the secondary skills, though they aren't essential, and when i use them i am quite mean not allowing extra DPs to buy them.

Similar skills i treat like the similar weapons, so 1/2 rank or 1/2 skill whichever is higher to give the players the edge (or the NPCs)

I like the smorgasbord of options and pick and choose as I feel the need

[allenrmaher]

I like the background options, hobby ranks, etc... It reminds me of my days playing MERP, otherwise I like the PP development and similar weapons because it is more like HARP.

Secondary skills are definitely a must.  I like the RMSS level bonuses.  They really do a much better job of fleshing out the sheet, and they make the various professions a little more balanced.

[Thom @ ICE]

No Comment....
I'd prefer to get a chance to use them in a gaming situation before commenting, but the ones selected are the ones I would be likely to use in a gaming situation.

[maikeru]

I have a tendency to use only core rules with any game system.  I personally think options, 3rd party, various house rules, etc... tend to get in the way.  As a newbie to RM in general, I think I would like to get the basics down, nice and neat, before cluttering the rules with options.  You have the D20 system to thank for that, there would be NO way to run a game with all the options available for it.  I use basically the SRD when I run one.

[Cormac Doyle]

My Votes & my comments are below.

Option 1: Power Points Based On Stat Bonus

If a stat is modified by the character's race, it should affect their Hits, their Power Points, and anything else that is calculated on their stats. Of course, I'm not sure if I should tick this (see below).

Option 2: Professions Versus Realms Of Power

Some professions (Ranger; Animist; Bard; Monk) may not always sit peacefully in their assigned realms. To my mind (for example), the description of "Essence" as being the magical field created by every living thing, and which pools in certain crystalline matrices (gems) sounds a much better fit for many rangers and animists than "Channeling from a greater power". So in my world, they can choose. See below for Monks & Bards.

Option 3: Animists As Herb Specialists

For a 1st level Animist, there is very little gain. The Herb Mastery and Plant Mastery spells quickly boost the Animist's abilities, but if the campaign is only a short; low level afair, i might implement this rule. "It Depends" is probably the best answer.

Option 4: Dwarven Alchemists As Channeling Users

Only way to make a Dwarf capable of creating magic items ... if you are running a "Tolkienesque" campaign, this option is a must ...

Option 5: Mentalism Monks & Essence Bards. The “Monk / Bard” Controversy

I side with Terry on this one, but allow both (see above ...)

Option 6: The “No Profession” Profession

A handy profession for all those farmers, inn keepers, and other "non-adventurers". Of course, I also ensure that the only "level 0" foes the players fight are the children they decide to slaughter ... and some of those innkeepers, merchants and city guards they decide to pick on may actually be retired fighters and rogues!!

Option 7: Random Height, Weight, And Size

Why should every dwarf be exactly the same size ?? Sometimes I wish this table was LARGER!

Option 8.1: Alternative Stat Generation Method 1 (Random-Fixed)
Option 8.2: Alternative Stat Generation Method 2 (Three Column Method)

Stat Gen is something I prefer to be point based, not random. If I decide to go for random, the version I use is generally 8.2 for the PC's, and core for the PCs.

Option 9: Background Options

Yup; I allow Background Options. In Fact - I'd recommend that (WITH GM OVERSIGHT), RMC/RM2/RMSS/RMFRP Players and GMs should look at Talent Law(RMSS) or Character Law (RMFRP) for a much-expanded Background Option system. PLEASE NOTE however, that possibly up to 80% of the options may have to be modified or rejected to suit the campaign planned by the GM. If your player's balk at this, don't introduce the system at all!!

Option 10: Hobbies

To my mind - these represent the interests and hobbies of the character when they were an adolescent, apart from those that are formally modelled their profession. As such, I use them extensively, but note that these amy be prone to MUNCHKINISM and ABUSE - keep an eye on this option.

Option 11.1: Additional Requirements For Skill Acquisition

"Requirements for skill acquisition" - definitely ... no-one in the middle of a desert miraculously learns to swim. Unless there is a teacher or library nearby - you aren't going to learn how to cast a whole new spell. GM oversight is all-important ...

Option 11.2: Partial Skill Acquisition At Half-Level

Nope - The extra "book-keeping" exceeds the gain in storytelling. However, if you find that you gain levels only once or twice a (real-time) year ... you may want to implement this ... GM style becomes important here.

Option 11.3: Practice For One Skill Rank Each Half-Level

YUCK. the whole concept of DP allocation is that those are the skills you are "practicing". This option essentially amounts to free DPs.

HOWEVER - under certain circumstances, I may allow characters to learn a skill "early" (for example - some characters in a foreign culture slowly learning the language). When it comes time to level up, I automatically deduct the dp's required to learn the skills ...

Option 12.1: Development Points Based On Stat Bonus

If I implement variable DPs - this is the variant I use. PLEASE NOTE - do not switch half-way through a campaign ... and remember that it should be calculated into the abilities and threat level of the foes faced too!!

Option 12.2: Flat Development Points

if I implement flat DPs - then I use this option. PLEASE NOTE - do not switch half-way through a campaign ... and remember that it should be calculated into the abilities and threat level of the foes faced too!!

Option 12.3: Additional Development Points For Secondary Skills

NO ... firstly - the concept of "primary" and "secondary" skills is firmly based in the type of gaming I avoid. Secondly - feel that boosting DPs like this is not helpful ... munchkins will still abuse the system. If I feel the character's spend some extra DP's - then they can spend them on whatever they like. But then - my players know I am a very ACTIVE GM, and may tell them to re-write their character if I feel the onset of munchkinism ...

Option 13.1: Weapon Skills For Similar Weapons 1 (Half Bonus)

Similar skills are the spawn of the Devil

Option 13.2: Weapon Skills For Similar Weapons 2 (Half Rank)

Guess

Option 14: Riding Skills For Similar Animals

See above

Option 15: Stat Bonuses For Spell Gain Rolls

Of Course Not ... (Coz' I don't use spell gain rolls ... see the options in spell law).

Option 16: Channeling Burnout When Using Spell Law

Yup

Option 17: Power Point Development (Sp)

Definitely ...

Option 18: Adding New Skills

Where necessary

Option 19: Secondary Skills

Of course ... and they are NOT secondary !!

Option 20: Equipment Size

Anything that annoys the players is good

Option 21: More Experience Point Suggestions

I use the XP system from HARP ...

Option 22: Extra Stat Gain Rolls

Yep

Option 23: Stat Reduction Due To Old Age

Of Course

Option 24.1: Expanded Level Bonuses For Professions (RM2)

No thanks - scaling bonuses are evil

Option 24.2: Expanded Level Bonuses For Professions (RMSS Conversion Friendly)

No thanks - scaling bonuses are evil

Option 24.3: Stepped Level Bonuses For Professions

No thanks - scaling bonuses are evil

Option 24.4: Static Level Bonuses For Professions

Yes (although the point at which they are fixed is a bit high - I would personally half these numbers).

Option 25: An Alternative Static Maneuver Table

Never saw the need ...

Option 26: Hiding And Stalking Versus Perception (Opposed Skills)

Opposed Skill Resolution is critical - I personally do not see this as optional.

Option 27: Quickness & Agility For Base Movement Rate

Movement RATE should be quickness-based; Movement ABILITY should be agility-based. So the answer is NO.

[eiseg]

Personally I like options.  even options I see no need for i've played with people that would love them.  So keep them all

[Marc R]

Some more RMC information, detail on the options in "Character Law" and the opinions of some of the RMC team and Mods involved in the project.

Be interesting to see what this poll looks like after it gets more votes.

[Elton Robb]

Some more RMC information, detail on the options in "Character Law" and the opinions of some of the RMC team and Mods involved in the project.

Be interesting to see what this poll looks like after it gets more votes.

No comment, yet.

[Marc R]

poll numbering modified (book change) 7 and 8 merged, affecting numbering from 7 on.

[Ecthelion]

Also some comments on my votes:
- Option 1 and 11.1, PPs/DPs based on Stat bonus: I never understood why a Halfling and a High Elf with a 90 Pr should get the same number of Mentalism PPs - with his racial penalty the Halfling would still be an ugly unimpressive chap while the High Elf would almost seem like a god-like creature. To circumvent this, the rules simply don't allow some professions to be taken by members of some races. This is silly, so I'd go for the optional rule (and also allow Halfling Mentalists  ).

- Option 14, Stat Bonuses For Spell Gain Rolls: I always felt that Semi-Spell Users had big trouble learning spells unless this option is used.

- Option 23, Level Bonuses: I am not sure what is meant by the Expanded Level Bonuses For Professions option, but as it sounds like, I think I prefer the last option anyway. But I agree to Cormac that the value seems a bit high. Half as much is enough.

- Option 25, Stalk & Hide vs. Perception: I voted for this rule although my fear is that it will be a rule that says the stalker simply has to subtract the observers Perception bonus and that's it. This again makes Stalking nearly impossible if the observer has only a average Perception skill bonus. I prefer the house rule we have in place that gives a bonus to the Stalking/Hiding attempt when using Stalk & Hide vs. Perception.

[smug]

I selected a bunch of them. Options are good to have, and most of those options would be good to use (from my point of view).

[Aelfwine]

Which XP system is going to be in Character Law (do we know?)

The HARP one is natural, but I also think they should lift the XP system from MERP Second Ed. There you got points for..

- Hit Points. Each wallop you take, you get experience for. That's inspired. A hero's scars contributing to his legend...
- Critical Points: Each could smack you gave the other guy.
- Kill Points: well, that's pretty standard. Easy to replace with HARP's system.
- Maneuver Points: each time you manage something, you get points.
- Spell Points: cast a spell, get points.
- Idea Points: Cool PC ideas. Come up with something cool that adds to the game session? Get points.
- Travel Points: also genius. The more you travel, the more points you get.
- Miscellaneous: whatever else.

Put those and the HARP system together in a blender and you've got something very nice.

Gavin

[smug]

I'd always increase experience points according to the memory and reasoning of the character in question (also a cool benefit from having higher ME and RE, which end up being pretty useless otherwise; that's a bad thing, because being clever and having a good memory are significant advantages in real life; in particular, they make it easier to learn).

[Cormac Doyle]

Which XP system is going to be in Character Law (do we know?)

The HARP one is natural, but I also think they should lift the XP system from MERP Second Ed. There you got points for..

- Hit Points. Each wallop you take, you get experience for. That's inspired. A hero's scars contributing to his legend...
- Critical Points: Each could smack you gave the other guy.
- Kill Points: well, that's pretty standard. Easy to replace with HARP's system.
- Maneuver Points: each time you manage something, you get points.
- Spell Points: cast a spell, get points.
- Idea Points: Cool PC ideas. Come up with something cool that adds to the game session? Get points.
- Travel Points: also genius. The more you travel, the more points you get.
- Miscellaneous: whatever else.

Put those and the HARP system together in a blender and you've got something very nice.

Gavin

The "Merp" system you described is the original "extended" XP option from RM.

We didn't add any new systems ...

[ictus]

Which XP system is going to be in Character Law (do we know?)

I love the HARp xp system, and to tell the truth have more or less used a system like it for years, however, campaign law is where I see options for XP appearing.

[smug]

Actually, I'd maybe use In and SD*, as well as Me and Re, to increase or reduce earnt experience points.

*Take that, elf scum.

[Sorloc]

<snip>
- Critical Points: Each could smack you gave the other guy.
- Kill Points: well, that's pretty standard. Easy to replace with HARP's system.
<snip>

Criticals are their own reward.  Granting XP for crits is easy munchkin meat.  It reinforces combat as the best road to success in the game, and back-seats roleplaying.  It means that although your opponent gives up, you'll get more XP if you keep beating on him.  Additionally, even if you get full 'kill XP' for defeating a creature without combat, why would you ever do that when you can get triple or quadruple the XP for dumping crits into him?

Kill Points - I would like to see this renamed 'Victory Points', to remove the emphasis from killing to overcoming your challenges, reinforcing the concept of finding other solutions to your problems other than combat.  Not that I have anything against combat, and whenever playing in someone's game who tracks XP, I play a Martial Artist, because I can inflict 20 crits on each of my 3 opponents without killing any of them, but then they finally get KO'd and I get kill XP.

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
Isaac Asimov, Salvor Hardin in "Foundation"

[Dax]

whenever playing in someone's game who tracks XP, I play a Martial Artist, because I can inflict 20 crits on each of my 3 opponents without killing any of them, but then they finally get KO'd and I get kill XP.

There might be a problem if your opponents are fighting back.
"Not tracking XPs" means you give normally XPs for archiving the goal,
or do you not use XPs ?

Criticals are their own reward. 
...

Kill Points - I would like to see this renamed 'Victory Points'
...

Sorloc is right in this !
'Victory Points' - I dare to give an idea point !