Topic: Epidemic!

[Neee-Wom]

In the last edition of Eidolon we have an scenario called Epidemic, covering how it could develop an illness in such a big city.

Right now I'm GMing a game in a city where there will be an epidemic too, and I was expecting to get good ideas in this adventure, but I found that RM is too good for my plans.

I have found using the level 1 spell Disease Purification from the Purifications list (Open Channelling), the caster can stop the infection and/or spread of a disease in 1 target after they have acquired the disease, and it's permanent, so that means that when an illness like this is spread, the channelling users could make an effort to treat all people at a ridiculous power point cost.

I do not mean that the illness would not be terrible, but it seems so easy to fix after the start. Although that spell means people would still be infected and could infect another people, I assume the bacteria will go directly to stationary phase and eventually die.

I do not like the fact that there should be no big fear if the people in Sel-Kai know that any cleric, even the lowest one can cure them.

So as I do not like the spell in the way it's done, there are some changes I have been thinking and I'd like to get some feedback.

• Option 1: The spell is not permanent, maybe 1 day x lvl
• Option 2: Each sickness has an infection lvl and the healing spell has to make an active RR
• Option 3: The spell is permanent, but the channelling user must know the sickness is treating to cast it. Also if the healer knows the sick still could spread the infection, they could send them to a quarantine area for 10-20 days.

What do you think?

[egdcltd]

One thing I've always considered with spells that cure disease is they simply cure it - they don't confer any immunity. Therefore, a cured person could always be reinfected.

[RickInVA]

It is magic after all, so I don't see any need for alteration in the spell.

Consider though the math.  Say there are 500 levels of cleric in a metropolis that can cast the spell.  Say further that they can collectivly cast it 2000 times per day.  If there are 200,000 people in the city it will take 100 days to cover everyone.  If the disease can move from infection to death in 30 days there are still going to be a LOT of potential deaths.

Also consider that followers of God A may refuse treatment from followers of God B or God C (but God D might be OK), etc.  Unless you have a superabundance of clerics in the city this can still be very deadly.  As always likely the rich and powerful will get taken care of first and the masses will suffer, but it has ever been thus.

[jdale]

One thing I've always considered with spells that cure disease is they simply cure it - they don't confer any immunity. Therefore, a cured person could always be reinfected.

I read it the same way. Just like the duration of a healing spell is permanent in the sense that the wound is not going to come back at the end of the duration, but you gain no protection against future injuries.

[markc]

I have used option 2 and the fact that you can contract the disease again.
MDC

[Neee-Wom]

You're  not cured, you are still sick but it will not advance more, so you cannot get infected again (at least the same strain).

My feeling is that the illness can be controlled quite easily as the effomrt would be minimum.

Regarding the different faiths,  if it's epidemic the authorities  could talk to the clerics or they could think by themselves that saving the city is more important.

[Peter R]

If you were infectious for a few days or more before any symptoms presented then the clerics could never keep on top of it. One carrier could infect hundreds without even knowing it.

[tbigness]

Ok being a military medical professional and an amateur historian, here is something to consider. Like someone said the rich will have healers at the beck and call. The poor will not have the funds to get treated right away and if the epidemic is not large scale this will result in the initial surge of sickness in close quarters. The spread will be rampant and many deaths will be declared before authorities will act generally around 2-3 weeks of reporting. This will then affect all workers at the Inns and Taverns along with the local patrons and travelers. This will spread not only through the city like a firestorm but will affect all outlying towns, cities and ports. There will be massive sick, dead and dying before a major effort will be put in place to stop the disease. The onus will be with herbal cures and healing of the wealthy before the poor and indigents among society and that is were the feuds will start and riots begin to fester among the population. Even with the low level spell there will be much damage and to find every infected person to cure them will put the authority at a straining point and resources at their limits. So I see nothing with the spell as written.

[markc]

You have to also remember that there is an infection time and a time before you are contagious and then a time before it affect you. So you could have something that is very infectious infect a lot of people before it shows its fatality.
MDC

[jdale]

Reading the spell list in more detail (I'm looking at the RMSS and RMU versions, I imagine the RM2 version is similar), I'm not sure the first level spell (2nd level in RMU) is actually as good as this discussion presumes.

The spell "stops infection and/or spread of a disease in 1 target after he has acquired the disease. No further damage will occur in uninfected areas of the body."

However, the target isn't cured, and areas of the body that have already been infected can continue to suffer damage. Even if you cast the spell on everyone in the city, people who already were suffering damage from the disease could still die due to the localized damage that continues.

To actually get rid of the disease, you could use Disease Resistance I, II, or III to grant additional resistance rolls (no guarantees there) or cast the 14th level Undisease which "can remove any 1 disease from the target."

Left ambiguous is whether the target is still infectious to others (or the spell only stops it from spreading to other parts "in" the target). If the target is not infectious, you could impose a quarantine on the city, then sweep from section to section treating everyone in each section. As long as you can control the populace, you will eventually get it under control. If the non-treated parts of the population riot and enter other areas of the city, you might have to start over. Could be an interesting challenge for the players to prevent that I suppose.

[Neee-Wom]

Thanks for all the useful input, I'm using RMC and this is the spell:

1. Disease Purification – Stops infection and/or spread of a disease in 1 target after they have acquired the disease. Thus, no further damage will occur in uninfected areas of the body.


The way I understand the spell, the infection is stopped, the damage will not advance, so in some way it can destroy part of the interest that an epidemia has and make a terrible plague into something nasty but not so bad....

Let's say the PC are in Sel-Kai when the illness starts, if they have a channelling user in the group that has the list all group could receive the spell every night and they could ignore completely what is happening.

The worst thing I discovered while thinking is that you can use that spell as a biological weapon. You infect people with something really bad and later use that spell and send them in the city you want to destroy, it would work and that's terrible, the poor guy would not even know that he's the agent.

[tbigness]

Thus the reason it is on the EVIL spellcaster list.

[Neee-Wom]

Thus the reason it is on the EVIL spellcaster list.

It's not evil, it's Open Channelling, unless you're a Duranaki and think gods are just egotistic powerful spell users.

[tbigness]

I meant the cause disease spell.

[Peter R]

How many priests would die/be put in a coma/lose all spell casting ability etc if 200,000 first level spells had to be cast? What is the base chance of spell failure?

You would also have the normal day to day demands on the priesthood anyway so they could not all be out there treating the infected.

Imagine a temple reverently silent waiting for the high priest to start the morning benediction when a single 'cough' echos out across the congregation. How many would die in the crush to get out of there?

[egdcltd]

There's also the fact that priests don't give their magic away. Both the Church of Zanar and the Sisters of Eissa in Sel-kai charge a fee that will be well beyond the range of most of the population. Whether or not they could be forced to heal in an emergency situation is a different matter, and one that would cause at the very least long-term problems for anyone doing the forcing.

[Terry K. Amthor]

I am enjoying this lively discussion! I want to answer the initial poster by saying that the 1st level spell Disease Purification is not a cure. It requires the level 14 spell to remove a disease and make the target instantly well again. The level 1 spell will cleanse one wound infection, or stop a disease from getting worse, so that the target might recover naturally (e.g., the flu would not progress to pneumonia). As far as whether the target is still contagious I would say yes for the 1st level spell and no for the 14th, but I leave that up to you. Also, whether they could be re-infected might depend on the disease. Here on Earth you get the measles once, but you can get a flu virus over and over.

Also, as someone pointed out, most of the clerics are not going to just go around and heal people out of the goodness of their hearts. Only if they felt like the entire economy of the realm was threatened might they be moved to freely offer healing, and even then, they would expect payment from the Prince. There is a price for everything in Sel-kai, as anywhere in the Shadow World.

[RickInVA]

Here on Earth you get the measles once, but you can get a flu virus over and over.

You can get a different flu virus each time (and there are a lot of them and they constantly mutate), but not the same one twice.

[Terry K. Amthor]

Here on Earth you get the measles once, but you can get a flu virus over and over.

You can get a different flu virus each time (and there are a lot of them and they constantly mutate), but not the same one twice.

Correct, same as a cold/rhinovirus.

[egdcltd]

The thing with such as measles is that you have gone through the disease properly. Magical cures short circuit the normal mechanisms. People magically cured may not have the antibodies.