Topic: +10 BAR vs +10 ESF vs +10 Caster level

[JUNKdeLUXE]

which one would you rather have, and why?

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the magic rules, as I've always played a melee killing machine in full plate etc - or at most a Noble Warrior where it wasn't as important knowing all these things.

Help a fellow out?

[Hurin]

Are you more concerned with casting the spell quickly in combat (i.e. getting it off successfully without failure) or having it affect an unwilling combatant?

--+10 ESF will help you cast the spell more quickly or in more armor by reducing your failure rates, but it won't make the spell any harder to resist.

--+10 BAR and/or +10 Caster level will not help you cast the spell any more quickly or safely, but it will make the spell harder to resist. Unless you are playing a high level campaign, I would say +10 Caster Level would be the better of the two.

[VladD]

+10 caster level would be too powerful. It means spells can be cast quicker (as these suffer big ESF modifiers when cast in less than 3 rounds if within 3 lvls of the caster and  in less than 2 rounds if between 6 and 4 lvls below the caster's. Then there's the RR attack level that will be affected, resulting in a (from the top of my head) 25 higher target for the victim.

ESF is actually an additional maneuver, required if the caster is not following the rules for normal casting. Every time the caster is not using at least a hand, preparing for the correct time, etc. If your character is planning to stick to the rules: don't bother with a +10 ESF. If your character is going to do overcasting, or underpreparing: go +10 ESF because bonuses are rare for this maneuver. Usually it is also restricted to a certain spell list or type of spell.

BAR is the meat and bones of a non-elemental caster. +10 means less chance of failure, and a bias of the RR modifier resulting from the BAR of +5.

[jdale]

Is that caster level for purposes of casting rolls and RR, or for purposes for spell durations, ranges, etc? That also could be fairly major.

[markc]

I agree +10 caster level is huge and is something I have used in some rings of power (like ME stuff)
MDC

[VladD]

Is that caster level for purposes of casting rolls and RR, or for purposes for spell durations, ranges, etc? That also could be fairly major.

I agree +10 caster level is huge and is something I have used in some rings of power (like ME stuff)
MDC

I overlooked to mention that, but caster level upgrades should, indeed, be in the artifact level range, IMHO.

[JUNKdeLUXE]

Thanks for all the answers, I only had a slight idea that they were used for such varied things.

I should probably mention that my class will be a Magus, so if +Caster Level is out the window (and I agree, it does sound very powerful) then I guess BAR and ESF have equal "power rating". BAR is a no brainer, but ESF as I often overcast (tempering for example) or cast a spell quicker than supposed to.

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

That being said, let's notice that there are rules to create +10 caster's level items (or rather, there's an associated enchanted properties' cost; also, the level increase may be for one list, for one spell type, or for all spell lists) or +10 ESF items (ring + there are spells that decrease the ESF modifications, thus have the same effect as increasing the ESF roll), but I can't find how one could create (going "by the rules") +10 BAR items. Is there any spell that gives a bonus to the BAR?