Topic: RoleMaster 2 Companions and game balance?

[Sean Barley]

I have seen more than one thread asking about bringing Companions 1-7 back for purchase (yes I know Companion 1 is back, I bought it, my hard copy is well loved!), wondering what everyone is using from the Companions and what game imbalances they have noticed/power creep?

[Marc R]

It's too varied. . . .and often it's one from column A, and one from column B, that create a meal that does too much.

A few often are issues.

Like, take some of the skill at magic BGO that grant "an entire list to level 50" then take it for a fighter. . .ooh, that's worth 50x20=1000 DP at least. . .then, pick the right list.

Some of the "Ultra high stats" ones went way over the top when combined around.

The latter, more permissive multi attack-multi target rules for monks.

But, I've also played games where those were taken into consideration, and loads of fun. . .imbalance isn't in being too powerful, it's in being too disproportionately out of whack with the other PCs that it throws off the game.

[Sean Barley]

Marc, thanks for the reply. I have seen much of what you mentioned. High Warrior Monks using demons beyond Pale as sparing partners. Just kinda looking for others experiences. Have this idea to write, guess I am trying to find what it is exactly by looking at what didnt work. Not very clear I know.

[markc]

 IMHO it depends on what type of game you play as to what you might think is unbalancing or not. Most of the laster companions and a few of the earlier ones the material was not play tested for balance but was just put into the companion and published. So some of the professions and spell lists are more powerful than the ones presented in the core book.
 As to what I have been told was overpowered by the person who taught me RM2 are the following professions; Warrior Mage, Arch Mage, Night Balde and I think there were at least 5 others as I seem to remember 8 that he said were very unbalanced. Why? Well all were better at one thing than the base professions with out significant drawbacks.
 The Essence Companion can be unbalancing as quite a few of the spell lists multiply damage of spells. The same goes for some of the material (Spell Lists) listed in the SUC.


 But I think again it depends on what style of game you play, want to play and your setting.
MDC   

[Zedul]

Some of the alternate level bonus tables in Companion 6 create issues.

Magus from Companion 3 is the most powerful class in the game if you allow it.  They can be more than problematic, they can be campaign busters if you player is smart about their spells.  Wiping someone completely out of existence?  Being able to teleport thousands of miles with no error? Loading items with x50 elemental attacks?  Yea....  all kinds of issues like that.  I've had to make special rules to limit the Magus.

Nightblades are also tricky, there is almost no reason to play a thief, burglar, or assassin in comparison so I have had to offer help to other classes.  Likewise I have really clamped down on the Spell Lists Archmages can take.

[Usdrothek]

Are these issues with the Magus, Nightblade and Archmage prevalent at low to medium levels?

Say up to 10th level. Without access to the super high level spells.

My group has a preference for playing at lower power levels. Infact, despite playing a single campaign every week for 5 years, we have probably never legitimately played a character over about 12th level, ever.

[providence13]

My group has a preference for playing at lower power levels. Infact, despite playing a single campaign every week for 5 years, we have probably never legitimately played a character over about 12th level, ever.

That sounds like a serious game, but 1 level/21-22 games? How often are TPK?

[Usdrothek]

Well I will admit our progress is often slow, as we're cautious and discuss things a fair bit. Not having access to mega-healing or powers makes you cautious....and plan....or run away a lot.

My records tell me we average about 45 sessions per year....but I'd guess we get a level about every 12 weeks. Never have we had a TPK (a party of 6 players), but we've had 3 die in one encounter. We are happy with the slow rate of advancement.

New characters have to come back in at 1st, but they get 'accelerated experience' so that they reach within 3 levels of the rest of the party much quicker. We had only two players not die through the course of the campaign.

[Zedul]

Are these issues with the Magus, Nightblade and Archmage prevalent at low to medium levels?

Say up to 10th level. Without access to the super high level spells.

My group has a preference for playing at lower power levels. Infact, despite playing a single campaign every week for 5 years, we have probably never legitimately played a character over about 12th level, ever.

The Magus can get out of control level 6+  Like the imbedded damage multiplier - where the only limitation on the x dmg of the spell is the amount of times you can cast it.

Likewise there is a resist rune that allows an average of +150 to RR.  You roll a d100 and multiply by 3 to get your resist bonus.  That could be a game-breaker at low levels... and it's one most players try to sneak by the GM.

In my opinion Rolemaster isn't a great game under level 10, it's a wonderful game at level 14 to 25... almost perfect.  At high high levels it tends to fall apart due to full parry issues and overpowered casters vs. melee.

[Usdrothek]

In my opinion Rolemaster isn't a great game under level 10, ............

Well I'll disagree with you here.

[TerryTee]

We had only two players not die through the course of the campaign.

Any you still get more people to join the game after most of the players die? Wow 

-Terry

[Zedul]

In my opinion Rolemaster isn't a great game under level 10, ............

Well I'll disagree with you here.

We agree to disagree.

But I am still right...

I am ALWAYS right in online forums cuz at home my wife never allows me to be right!   

[Usdrothek]

We had only two players not die through the course of the campaign.

Any you still get more people to join the game after most of the players die? Wow 

-Terry

 

[markc]

In my opinion Rolemaster isn't a great game under level 10, ............

Well I'll disagree with you here.

 I have to agree with Usdrothek here as it was the main point of my RM2 GM made and showed us via math. But then he preferred a lower powered game over all and not a high powered one.
MDC

[Zedul]

I have to agree with Usdrothek here as it was the main point of my RM2 GM made and showed us via math. But then he preferred a lower powered game over all and not a high powered one.
MDC

The math states simply...

A: The lower level game is decided completely by the role of the dice.  The dice roll is EVERYTHING at low levels.  When you have a +50 OB and you are rolling a d100 and have a chance to open end, your combat and critical roll dictate the fight, the skill success, and so on,  period.

B: At the high end campaign when your d100 roll averages 25% of your total skill everything changes and your skills rule the day.  Where you put your dev points, and how you play your character dictate the game.

[markc]

I have to agree with Usdrothek here as it was the main point of my RM2 GM made and showed us via math. But then he preferred a lower powered game over all and not a high powered one.
MDC

The math states simply...

A: The lower level game is decided completely by the role of the dice.  The dice roll is EVERYTHING at low levels.  When you have a +50 OB and you are rolling a d100 and have a chance to open end, your combat and critical roll dictate the fight, the skill success, and so on,  period.

B: At the high end campaign when your d100 roll averages 25% of your total skill everything changes and your skills rule the day.  Where you put your dev points, and how you play your character dictate the game.

 I make my RR roll and have noting to say.
MDC

[yammahoper]

I have to agree with Usdrothek here as it was the main point of my RM2 GM made and showed us via math. But then he preferred a lower powered game over all and not a high powered one.
MDC

The math states simply...

A: The lower level game is decided completely by the role of the dice.  The dice roll is EVERYTHING at low levels.  When you have a +50 OB and you are rolling a d100 and have a chance to open end, your combat and critical roll dictate the fight, the skill success, and so on,  period.

B: At the high end campaign when your d100 roll averages 25% of your total skill everything changes and your skills rule the day.  Where you put your dev points, and how you play your character dictate the game.

 I make my RR roll and have noting to say.
MDC

lol.

I like low powered games were you have to struggle for every morsel of succcess AND high powered games with constant spells, cinamatic combat and Body Wish spells.

Level 7-12 is probably my favorite.  As a Gemini, my mood waxes and wanes accordingly.

[Usdrothek]

B:   Where you put your dev points, and how you play your character dictate the game.

I find this to be true at all stages of play, from 1st level on.

While the roll is still a large component of the final skill result determination, it puts the element of uncertainty in there. We enjoy that. We enjoy that you cant be sure of making that jump over the pit, or picking that lock. When you have gross bonuses, that is taken away from you.

And to say "Well when we play at high levels, you face huge challenges", is kind of an equalisation. If you have +250 lock picking, but you are trying to pick the "uber lock of ages' (-200 to pick), well......its the same as having +50 skill. Same with fighting with a mega high OB facing creatures with mega high DBs and DB enhancing spells. You could say, the sum difference is little changed from low level play, with the exception you probably have more options thanks to lots of spells and items.

[Marc R]

I disagree. . . .

At low levels, manipulating the modifiers to your advantage is the key.

"You shot that man in the back!"
"His back was to me."

At low levels, you take the high ground, roll the rocks, take the flank, lure them into mud, wait for joe to stun them, sneak up on them when they're sleeping. . .. then go for it.

At super high levels, you step in the mud, allow them the flank, and still go for it.

The rest of the time is in between somewhere.

Only people who enjoy character generation leave anything up to the dice they can possibly front load to their advantage.

I find it amusing when my character, due to long survival, is 50% or 100% higher level than the group combat monster on character #3 or #4, and they say "Your character is so powerful, why is he such a wussy arse coward?". . .the answer being that he's high level because he doesn't live for combat, avoids it when he can, and makes sure to win when he can't. . .using whatever wussy arse coward means are handy. Thus surviving, and going up levels, rather than heroically dying.

[Grinnen Baeritt]

I thought 4th level WAS high level.....