Topic: Handling Hiding, Perception and Ambushes

[Dalewarrior]

How do you fellows handle Hiding versus Perception? This is how I figured it.


Perception skill checks for ambushes:

1. A successful Hiding or Stalking roll gives the opponent a -70 modifier for Perception; a Hiding total roll of 140-175 gives a -80 modifier; a Hiding roll of 175+ gives a -90 to Perception. A successful Camouflage skill roll adds -10 to Perception for a Success result of 111-140 ; -20 for a Success of 140-175; and -30 for a Complete Success of 175+. Use +30 for Perception if anyone is actively looking for an ambush, which takes 45% of the round.  Use +20 for Perception if the character making the Perception roll has encountered the situation before.

Total Hiding roll:   Modifier to Perception roll to detect sneaker
111-140   -70
141-175   -80
175+   -90
Total Camouflage roll:   
111-140   -10
141-175   -20
175+   -30
Actively looking for sneaker:   
+30
Encountered the situation before:   
+20
Note: These modifiers are cumulative.

2. The ambushed characters failing their first Perception roll, get a second roll on the RR Table using the Sense Ambush & Assassin skill bonus/10 as the Defense level and the Hiding or Ambush skill bonuses/10 as the Attack level.
If the characters fail both rolls, they are surprised. Surprised characters have -40 to Initiative against an open melee attack; and lose Initiative and have no Agility or shield bonuses against Missile or Stalking attacks.

Regards,
Dalewarrior

[Marc R]

I tend to have the hiding roll in excess of 100 modify the perception check.

Modifiers need to be certain only to affect one side. (i.e. if it's dark, it's a bonus to hide, or a penalty to see, not both)

[Ecthelion]

You can also take a look at the House Rules document of my group, which is available as PDF on my homepage. It contains some rules for Stalk & Hide vs. Perception.

[Dalewarrior]

I did Ecthelion. I felt the same way about subtracting Perception from the Hiding & Stalking skill bonus, in that it is not viable.

I further felt that the Perception modifiers against Hiding should depend on the distance; I used mostly the bow distances to create the penalties depending on the distance of the sneaker. Thus a sneaker might escape detection at 100 meters but as the perceiver approaches the spot where the opponent is hiding, Hiding gets more difficult to be done.

[Nders]

I tend to have the hiding roll in excess of 100 modify the perception check.

Modifiers need to be certain only to affect one side. (i.e. if it's dark, it's a bonus to hide, or a penalty to see, not both)

We do exactly the same. I find it to be the simplest way to do it.

[yammahoper]

I subtract the skill rank bonus in the skill as a penalty, plus any additional mods, be they for spells, lighting, etc.  Essentially, any bonus to the stalk/hide roll becomes a penalty to the perception roll.

[Marc R]

Only problem with that it that it makes it too easy to hide, the roll + bonus - 100 averages out to the skill bonus for stalk -50 as a penalty to perception (Obviously more or less depending on roll, but on average)

I guess a lot matters as to if the person is seen with a success, and noticed on a partial success, or if they are only seen on a full success and nothing less.

I tend to give the same answer for a partial success or a total failure, which if the perceiver is a PC is "You see/hear/smell something over there.". . . for a partial success, they investigate, for a failure they investigate nothing and waste time.