Topic: Action Point System

[Ravenheart]

Rolemaster Companion IV introduced the Action Point Based Turn Sequence system that could be used to replace "round system". It was interesting, but too complicated and still included "rounds".

What we did in our group was to adapt the action points and got rid of rounds.

Every action spends some action points, the exact amount depending on task and character's quickness, skill level, health and so on. There's no "turns" or "rounds", just a cumulative Action Point (AP) rolling until tactical situation is over. Actions follow each other seamlessly. 40 Action Points equals to 10 seconds or one "round" if that information is necessary.

Classical example: This may seem incredibly complicated, but I think that normal Action% system with the same example, stating percentages in explaining manner would suffer equally.

Jack and Jones are walking on the road, and encounter some orcs. Distance is 100 feet. GM rolls for some Alertness rolls for everyone, and describes to players some first-look things from orcs (like weaponry, armors, size etc) depending on the success level. GM states that tactical battle begins, rolls laminated hex map on table, draws some trees and stuff on it and throws in miniatures.

GM calls for Orientation rolls for everyone. This roll is a catch-all initiative roll, perhaps misleadingly named but anyway. [Orientation roll is modified by QU/SD bonus average + 50 + d100 + gm mods, result is checked from the short table, giving usually something around 5 - 30 AP). Orientation AP (Action Point) says the amount of action points that goes by before the character can do anything. 5AP is quite a norm for experienced characters, having Instinctive Maneuver ranks, Lightning Reaction talents and so on.

After Orientation rolls, we know exactly who goes first (in tie, it's either same time action or the one with greater QU bonus, stat etc goes first).

GM asks for intentions, players state theirs and GM writes down orcs intentions and the moment when actions are resolved. For example, orc 1 draws a sword from scabbard which takes ½ of normal attack Action Points (without quickdraw action) - let's say it's 18AP action. Since orc 1's Orientation was 10AP's from start, the sword is at hand on 10+18=28AP.

Orc 2 rolled 5AP for his Orientation and decides to shoot with short bow at Jack. Loading a bow takes 24AP's + shooting 10AP's more, so GM marks AP 5 + 24 + 10 = 39 as a action resolution phase for orc 2.

Orc 3 decides to run behind the nearest tree so that he can check the situation from someplace safe. Orientation roll states AP15, nearest tree being some 20feet away. GM calculates that orc runs (120feet/rnd) the 20 feet in (20feet/120)*40 = 7AP's. He's behind the tree at AP 15+7=AP22.

Orc 4 fumbles his Orientation roll, so he's totally surprised and can do nothing in next 40AP's.

Jack's player states that his Orientation resulted in AP5, and his intention is to draw a sword with quickdraw. Since none is doing anything at AP 5, he rolls for his Quickdraw skill, a success, which means 1/4 of attack time = 8AP's. His new intentions are called at AP 5+8=AP13.

Jones rolls for AP 10, and states that he's casting a class I directed spell, taking 10AP's. He targets the orc with a bow who he now sees is probably loading his bow. GM secretly rolls for orc's alertness if they could have any change to notice what's going on. Rolls fail so no actions because of spell casting.

Everyone takes care of his own numbers, which is basically just a next action resolution phase. Jack's paper says AP 13 and Jones's paper says AP 20.

And from that it all really starts:

At AP 13 Jack is ready for further action. GM says that one orc is loading his bow and Jones is apparently casting a spell (assuming it's apparent from casting style, let's say it is an essence spell). This information is available, since the actions have already started (orc started it on AP 10 as well as Jones). Jack's player curses and decides to run behind a tree, shouting a warning to Jones. Distance to nearest tree is 30 feet and Jack's running speed is 150feet/rnd, so it takes (30/150)*40=8AP's. So Jack's next Action Phase is 13 + 8 = AP 21. He runs and shouts to Jones at the same time: "Run for cover". GM says its such a small message that it really happens at the same time. Had Jack decided to speak longer, he would continue speaking while at cover. GM rolls for Jones's routine Alertness and he gets the message but decides to pay no attention while casting a spell.

Meanwhile, Orc 1 sees that one human draws a sword and runs behind the tree while he self is drawing his sword. The orc is slightly worried since the human draw a sword incredibly fast.

Orc 2 is loading his bow and sees that his intended target ran for cover. Since the load phase is still going on (probably setting a arrow to string now), he just decides to shoot Jones instead, taking no penalty since the actual shooting phase has not yet started. Orc still intents to shoot at AP 39.

GM calls for actions. Jones says he's ready at 20, so he's next. Jones's been casting a shock bolt spell and now's the resolution phase. Spell casting is a success and after damage resolution, orc has suffered some damage and is at stunned state. Jones feels a momentary stress of spell casting and knows he's not able to cast another spell yet (spell casting interval = spell level/2 + 20AP's). Jones states he intents to run for cover as Jack did. He's at cover at AP 20 + 9 = 29.

Orc 2: While loading, he sees a flash at Jones's hand...(AP 20)...and feels the heat of shock bolt and intense pain on his side. Orc is stunned and cannot continue his action of loading the bow for next 40 AP's (one old-time "round" of stun). In short, orc is stunned until AP 20+40=60. Among other things, stun results in need of another and immediate orientation roll, and now with some penalties. GM rolls orc's new AP to be 20, so orc's next action phase is 20(stun result)+20 (new orientation).

Orc 3 is ready for action and behind the tree at AP 23. He scans the area shortly (10AP's of Observation), so his next Action Phase is at AP 33. During this scan (23-33) he sees how Jack has disappeared and Jones is running for cover. He also sees that one of his comrades has been hit by some nasty thing, one is standing still like an moron and one is drawing his clumsy sword from his back and is finally ready for an action.
After a scan (at AP 33) Orc 3 shouts to moron (orc 4) to follow him, using his Leadership skill (GM rolls success). Orc 4 instantly runs behind the same tree as orc 3.

What I'm trying to show, is that round system is an abstraction that is not at all necessary. Actions can follow each other and synchronize, creating a intriguing tactical situation, a game of it's own especially if using hex. Any action possible can be simulated this way, with varying intervals and individual AP's. Everyone follows his own next Action Phase and alerts when time is right.

Many things in RM refer to 10sec rounds, like stuns, spells etc. This is easily solved as 1 rnd = 40AP's.

What is needed in this system is a Action Point table which lists a base AP cost of any action. RM Companion IV page 16 is quite full of these.

We've been playing with this system for some 10 years now, and it's fluent.

In short, you only need to know how long your action takes AP's and roll.

[RandalThor]

I have been thinking about a system like this for quite a while now, just didn't know how to get it started (or just to lazy to). It does sound like something I would prefer - I have grown to dislike the, "its my initiative and I do all this (run, draw weapon, and attack) in that split-second" mentality with the normal round procedures. Just like Hit Points, the current round mechanics feel too abstract for me - when I am playing a game that tries to be detailed in many other aspects. For those games that are high adventure (like 7th Sea) the abstract is fine, it fits with the rest of the system.

[Dreven1]

RandalThor - you might want to consider "Second by Second" combat! It was the most detailed yet cumbersome system I have EVER seen.   
If you want to know what very second a specific action happens then "Second by Second" combat is it!
If you want a combat between 2 skeletons and 4 players to last 8 hours in real time... this is your bag baby!!! 
LOL
After playing in this system for almost 2 years ... we abandoned it because of the time it took for 1 combat.  Excellent system however for detail! 

[lordmalachdrim]

Tracking second by second doesn't seem to slow things down too much in HackMaster.

[RandalThor]

GURPS also has 1-second combat rounds, but I think it isn't done quite right. They don't go into enough explaination about how you shouldn't just try to attack every round (hence, every second) like you do in games with "normal" round durations. So you get just sped up time in game. (Like a combat taking 4-5 seconds instead.)

I sort of like the way the Hero system does it, with 12 second rounds and you get a number of actions during that time due to your Speed. Though I would definately incorporate more of a Combat Prowess instead of pure speed method in there. (Like for RM, you could have a base # of actions dependent upon your race/quickness - usually around 2 or 3 - and then, as you get better in combat you start adding actions. How you determine the "better in combat" is the tricky part, I think.)

[TerryTee]

How you determine the "better in combat" is the tricky part, I think.

You could just use level to abstract this.
Higher level = more combat experience.

-Terry

[Cory Magel]

Second by second combat shouldn't slow your combats down once you are used to it and if you have players property organize their character folders and pay attention.

[RandalThor]

How you determine the "better in combat" is the tricky part, I think.

You could just use level to abstract this.
Higher level = more combat experience.

-Terry

Or (which I like beter) the number of ranks in whatever weapon you are using. So, a fighter will be faster with his specialized weapon, than something he barely can use. Familiarity breeds speed.

[RandalThor]

Second by second combat shouldn't slow your combats down once you are used to it and if you have players property organize their character folders and pay attention.

You must play with the rarest of the the rare: the responsible, forward thinking player. Wow, I thought they had all died out in the 90's..... 

[Cory Magel]

Second by second combat shouldn't slow your combats down once you are used to it and if you have players property organize their character folders and pay attention.

You must play with the rarest of the the rare: the responsible, forward thinking player. Wow, I thought they had all died out in the 90's..... 

From the start with MERP, then RM, we took binders with dry erase sleeves and setup out characters.  1st/2nd pages are character info.  3rd/4th are skills.  5th/6th are combat sheet info and, if needed, experience tracking sheet. 7th/8th (and however many needed two page combos) are weapon or spell attack table and corresponding crit chart.  Then come the spell lists you know.

Basically, if you commonly use it, it should be in front of you in your folder.  If it's a common roll it should be totaled up already... for example if you are repeatedly adding up all the various modifiers on a skill or action you've performed more than two times in one combat or if it comes around to your turn and you are consistently saying "Huh? What? It's my turn? Wait... let me figure out what I'm going to do..." someone is going to get on your case.

Don't get me wrong, we're here for the social aspect. Otherwise we'd be playing online.  But if you can't get your act together you're not going to get invited back on a regular basis.

Course, most of us think tactically, it's why we like combat so much.  When you have a group of people like that they tend to pay attention.

[Cory Magel]

Or (which I like beter) the number of ranks in whatever weapon you are using. So, a fighter will be faster with his specialized weapon, than something he barely can use. Familiarity breeds speed.

Rolemaster really needs a weapon specialization rule.  Lower initiative, lower fumble range, adjust criticals... that kind of stuff, so you have a reason to continue training in a skill you've essentially maxed out.

[RandalThor]

CM, there are the weapon styles from MAC that give you some of what you mentioned there, but they are another DP sink. Of course, you could always say that if the style is developed for a weapon in which you have specialization or occupational (wow), then the style is also specialized or occupational. But only as it pertains to that weapon.

[Cory Magel]

CM, there are the weapon styles from MAC that give you some of what you mentioned there, but they are another DP sink. Of course, you could always say that if the style is developed for a weapon in which you have specialization or occupational (wow), then the style is also specialized or occupational. But only as it pertains to that weapon.

The MAC is one of my favorite books, but it doesn't solve the diminishing returns issue with weapon skills.  With a caster you have a very good reason to continue development.  Even though you don't get squat for the skill total itself you are learning more spells.  This isn't the case with most skills.  So what I'd like to see is something to the effect of specialization.  You wouldn't even need to make it a separate skill from the weapon skill, you could just say that starting at 20 ranks you get into the 'Specialization' level and start getting certain bonuses.

Something along the lines of... (bonuses are not cumulative and cannot reduce a penalty below 0)

Level 20 - Reduce Initiative Modifier by 1
Level 23 - +10 to any attempts to resist being disarmed
Level 26 - Reduce Fumble Range by 1
Level 29 - +10 to any Parry
Level 32 - Reduce Initiative Modifier by 2
Level 35 - Adjust Critical Roll by 1 (cannot be adjusted to an UM result)
Level 38 - +20 to any attempts to resist being disarmed
Level 41 - Reduce Fumble Range by 2
Level 44 - Reduce Initiative Modifier by 3
Level 47 - +20 to any Parry
Level 50 - Equal skill regardless of which hand you are using (this does not negate the two weapon penalty)
Level 53 - 110% damage multiplier
Level 56 - Reduce Initiative Modifier by 3
Level 59 - Reduce Fumble Range by 3
Level 62 - Adjust Critical Roll by 2 (cannot be adjusted to an UM result)

[markc]

 What I do is allow for the special abilities the style teaches to be acquired at various ranks after 15th depending on the power of the ability.
MDC