Author Topic: That would be cool to have an offical zine again. [Poll]  (Read 4715 times)

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Offline kwickham

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That would be cool to have an offical zine again. [Poll]
« on: April 04, 2023, 10:53:19 AM »
I don't publish anything for ICE. I am just a fan.

However, I am buying the new RMU system.

What are your thoughts? Reply with your ideas, thoughts, or reasoning.

One thing that I realized later in my recent post is that the content from the Guild Companion issues is no longer available, for new releases. There is nothing to support the new game system similar to the online GC magazine. GC issues continued nearly monthly for 241 issues.

Trying to think of ways that small adventure content or rules can be released official, got me thinking about the former ICE Quarterly (1988-1991) magazine books (I think they were called) that I purchased back in the 80s.

I also see that there was a Rolemaster Quarterly from 2006 to 2007.

The time between the major volume publications is very distant.

History shows a ICE zines could be published for 2 to 3 years until interest dries up. The online version continued for decades.  I am all for a new limited zine run, to support the new RMU content and even other ICE products for at least 2 years (8 issues).

That made me very interested if I was the only person who would like new chunks of RMU (or whatever currently supported game system) in a smaller regularly released format at least for a limited production run, while the new system is popular. Especially, the idea seems relevant since the GC issues ceased in 2019.

Again, I don't work for ICE. This is just to put an possible idea or ideas in front of the publishers eyes. And if there is no interest, this may be helpful as well.

Offline nash

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Re: That would be cool to have an offical zine again. [Poll]
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2023, 11:04:27 AM »
The question that immediately follows is who is going to do the work?

I would prefer the main ICE staff work on getting the core books out and early (essentially) core supplements.  Magazines can take an insane amount of time.

So yeah, I voted I would buy it, but I would be unhappy if it slowed or interfered with the main content.

Offline Hurin

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Re: That would be cool to have an offical zine again. [Poll]
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2023, 11:13:53 AM »
Brian, Peter, and others at the Rolemaster Blog often do put out content. Peter IIRC was editor of the GC. So that might be a place to start.

I think quarterly is probably the way to go.
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Offline GrumpyOldFart

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Re: That would be cool to have an offical zine again. [Poll]
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2023, 11:48:13 AM »
To be honest I think at least 1/3 of it should be ideas aimed at drawing in new players. Given that, I'm wondering if it shouldn't be free.
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Offline kwickham

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Re: That would be cool to have an offical zine again. [Poll]
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2023, 01:49:12 PM »
To be honest I think at least 1/3 of it should be ideas aimed at drawing in new players. Given that, I'm wondering if it shouldn't be free.
It could be free PDFs. Or it could be $3+ similar to Rolemaster Quarterly 8 issues which are still available . I'm for a paid version if that means the content would be more significant.

If they wanted, they could do both. Modern publishers and content providers support subscriber premium and free content.

In a similar way, they could always publish formated in a PDF and eventually print on demand version first for those who pay to receive it first—premium content.

Then X amount of weeks later make the raw information or select portions that they own the legal rights to or permission—appropriate stuff for new players—unformated and without images, be available on the site in a digital format.

Did those RM Quarterlies eventually made their way to the GC issues?
It seems like I've seen that content in some GC issues.

The small content, rules, setting, characters, creatures, lore, spells, weapons, and other stuff that isn't for new players and isn't core to the game could support the system flowing in between major book publishes.

Offline Colin-ICE

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Re: That would be cool to have an offical zine again. [Poll]
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2023, 03:26:13 AM »
What would you include to make it appeal to new players?

How would you want it to look / be formatted?

I like the idea but Nash is right, one way or another it would take some time from other ICE products (just uploading it to DrivethruRPG if nothing else). I'm sure a lot of you have heard me talk of my dream of having lots of PCs, NPCs, mini-adventures, monsters, treasures etc on the website. Maybe you don't need the $3 quarterly version, maybe a yearly round up of all of that stuff from the website into something a bit more substantial and with a couple of pieces of art for $7/$8 would be better.

That doesn't answer the question about who would do it, but that's my dream.

Offline B Hanson

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Re: That would be cool to have an offical zine again. [Poll]
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2023, 07:19:00 AM »
I would note that Peter over at the Rolemasterblog has been publishing the Rolemasterblog Fanzine for over 4 years now with blog material as well as new content. With a few more contributors we could really buff it up, but overall I would consider that a solid, consistent publishing effort without needing any official support.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/352852/RolemasterBlog-Fanzine-Issue-48
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Offline kwickham

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Re: That would be cool to have an offical zine again. [Poll]
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2023, 01:54:30 PM »
With a few more contributors we could really buff it up, but overall I would consider that a solid, consistent publishing effort without needing any official support.
That went from 2017 to 2021, so supported that material and before, unofficially with fan stuff. I guess it died out as well.
And I think half of those fans are all busy publishing other material for other game systems ATM.

Zines have a limited run I think to some degree, which is why 2 years might be a good estimation for a production run. Anything further might be a bonus. Just focus on 8 quarterly official beneficial topical content focused issues quarterly for 2 years, and then see where interest is.

Offline kwickham

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Re: That would be cool to have an offical zine again. [Poll]
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2023, 02:46:32 PM »
Why do I emphasize "official" ICE stuff.

With the IP of MERP gone, I am following the closest relative, the RM IP.

Yes, I know there are 'clones' of MERP that are not official connected to the original. I am not following any of those—I have no loyalty with those opportunistic fans. I'd rather follow the successive IP that was the source of MERP.

I am hoping that the Intellectual Property (IP) owned by the current owner grows in size and quantity. In that way, it may increase the chance of surviving for longer duration, developed further, and produce more IP until it becomes public domain in X years.

Fan stuff is fine for some, but it doesn't grow the official IP. It grows the fans IP.

One quote i saw many years ago is "ICE plans to develop its IP, either in house or through acquisition."

https://index.rpg.net/display-generalinfo.phtml?key=publisher&value=I.C.E.

RMU Core Law and RMU Spell Law publication is evidence of that statement.

Offline Hurin

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Re: That would be cool to have an offical zine again. [Poll]
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2023, 09:35:30 PM »
I think the publication of RMU should inject some new energy into the fanbase. You can already see it in the work on a Roll20 Character Sheet and homebrew character sheets too. So I do think there might be enough for a zine.
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Offline nash

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Re: That would be cool to have an offical zine again. [Poll]
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2023, 09:59:29 PM »
I think the publication of RMU should inject some new energy into the fanbase. You can already see it in the work on a Roll20 Character Sheet and homebrew character sheets too. So I do think there might be enough for a zine.

Do we want a zine, or RM2 style companions?

Offline kwickham

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Re: That would be cool to have an offical zine again. [Poll]
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2023, 02:28:11 AM »
How many companion books are written and ready to be published right now?

Offline 5th Knight of Xar

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Re: That would be cool to have an offical zine again. [Poll]
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2023, 03:39:59 AM »
How many companion books are written and ready to be published right now?

None I think, ICE is working on getting the basic RMU books made and published this year, most likely along with more HARP content/PoD versions.

Offline GrumpyOldFart

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Re: That would be cool to have an offical zine again. [Poll]
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2023, 07:43:10 AM »
Do we want a zine, or RM2 style companions?

Yes. But given the number of full time employees ICE has, that's rather beside the point isn't it?
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Offline jdale

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Re: That would be cool to have an offical zine again. [Poll]
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2023, 10:55:30 AM »
How many companion books are written and ready to be published right now?

If they were "ready to be published" they would be published. But, written? The answer is one.
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Offline B Hanson

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Re: That would be cool to have an offical zine again. [Poll]
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2023, 07:18:20 PM »
Do we want a zine, or RM2 style companions?
Ice has no full time employees beside the principals. All of RMU was volunteer driven as far as I know. Kudos to them. I'm really curious, as a contributor to the system, what people are looking for. Imprimatur? A lot of ICE products are "official" but not necessarily good material. Terry definitely drew a line in the and on Shadow World Canon. Should a lot of the material in Companions be considered official? Is officially ICE published material relevant despite it's quality? I see a lot of comments asking for ICE IP sanctified material. I'm all for that, but who is going to write it?

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Offline kwickham

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Re: That would be cool to have an offical zine again. [Poll]
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2023, 10:20:48 PM »
How many companion books are written and ready to be published right now?

If they were "ready to be published" they would be published. But, written? The answer is one.

And a half a dozen, or so, that made prior RM companions might be able to tweak their prior versions into RMU versions if they want to, I assume, hopefully with only minor changes. A conversion document might help speed that along and help players do so. Even a free or PWYW issue, guide, vault-download, or whatever.

Some prior conversion stuff found in the vault.
RMSS Creatures & Monsters Conversion to HARP
Rolemaster to HARP Conversion Guide

Someone that knows RMSS, Classic RM, RMFRP, and/or HARP would maybe help future projects based on prior companion books speed along.

Offline kwickham

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Re: That would be cool to have an offical zine again. [Poll]
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2023, 10:54:28 PM »
I could try making more MERP Conversion stuff.
I have added my thoughts about RMU vs MERP Armor in this post.

https://ironcrown.co.uk/ICEforums/index.php?topic=18948.msg227082#msg227082

Pr0x1mus actually used MERP for RMU beta testing.

Offline Cory Magel

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Re: That would be cool to have an offical zine again. [Poll]
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2023, 11:24:05 PM »
I think a 'Zine' would be a poor use of official ICE staff's time and, if they are working on something, it should be working on official full publications.

I also think it's far more likely for a zine succeed if you have the full, base, compliment of books out first before fans start generating enough content to keep one going for more than a token few editions.

Converting old RM2/RMC and RMSS/RMFRP content might be a good place to start, but that might just become redundant with new RMU material as I would assume the goal is to largely reprise the more popular old books.
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Offline kwickham

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Re: That would be cool to have an offical zine again. [Poll]
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2023, 12:21:22 PM »
I think a 'Zine' would be a poor use of official ICE staff's time and, if they are working on something, it should be working on official full publications.

I also think it's far more likely for a zine succeed if you have the full, base, compliment of books out first before fans start generating enough content to keep one going for more than a token few editions.

I think that the first two years of a games content existing are the two most active years of a game. After the third year, the game steam power begins to dwindle. After five, the game is dead or barely surviving.

I think that the best timing for a zine as at the end of the second year of initial production, much like RMSS. So, for RMU December of 2024.

Looking at the history, I think that RMSS historical data is more reliable than RMFRP, because RM assets were sold about two years into the production run. It took a little while to get up to production after the sale.

RMSS published two annual issues.
RMFRP published seven quarterly issues.

Which was better? RMSS supported the system during its prime. RMFRP may have used to extend the last grasps of production—seemly insignificant.

While the first years is core focused, the second years of saw the greatest flow of RM Companion books, except RMFRP which was sold at that time resulting in pushing them to the third and fourth years.

I will put in unitalicized bold the magazine issues for RMSS and RMFRP.

I am not going to verify the dates and years (which I have seen discrepancies between Goodread dates and Wikipedia dates), but rather look at the productions overall.



RM1 went for 4 years.

RM2 core and companion books went for 10 years. January 1, 1984 Arms Law & Claw Law until January 1, 1994  Sea Law
https://www.goodreads.com/series/80913-rolemaster-2nd-edition

Probably, most will agree that RM2 demand will not be replicated. So lets look at RMSS and RMFRP.




Rolemaster Standard System

Rolemaster Standard System core and companion books went for 5 years. Arms Law January 1 1994 until January 1, 1999 ... And a 10-Foot Pole
https://www.goodreads.com/search?q=rolemaster+standard+system

1994
Arms Law (Rolemaster Standard System, #5520)

1995
Spell Law (Rolemaster Standard System, #5522)
Creatures & Monsters (Rolemaster Standard System, #5540)
Gamemaster Law (Rolemaster Standard System, #5521)
Rolemaster Standard Rules (Rolemaster Standard System, #5500)
Rolemaster Player Guide (Rolemaster Standard System, #5503)
Rolemaster Character Records (Rolemaster Standard System, #5504)
Curse of Kabis (1995)
Arcane Companion (Rolemaster Standard System, #5600)(Wikipedia says 1996)

1996
Treasure Companion (Rolemaster Standard System, #5601)
Races & Cultures: Underground Races (Rolemaster Standard System, #5541)
Castles & Ruins (Rolemaster Standard System, #5542)
Talent Law (Rolemaster Standard System, #5523)
Weapon Law: Firearms (Rolemaster Standard System, #5524)

RMSS' Magazines Rolemaster Annual 1996

1997
Martial Arts Companion (Rolemaster Standard System, #5602)
Essence Companion (Rolemaster Standard System, #5603)
Black Ops (1997)
Pulp Adventures (1997)

RMSS' Magazine  Rolemaster Annual 1997

1998
Channeling Companion (Rolemaster Standard System, #5604)
Mentalism Companion (Rolemaster Standard System, #5605)
Shades of Darkness (Rolemaster Standard System, #5702)

1999
...And a 10-Foot Pole
10 Million Ways To Die (1999)
Nightmares of Mine (1999)




Rolemaster Fantasy Roleplaying

RMFRP  core and companion books went from Arms Law June 1, 1999 to Races & Cultures September 21, 2004, except the 7 quarterly issues at the end.

1999
Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing (Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing, #5800)
Arms Law (Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing, #5801)
Character Law (1999)
Creatures & Monsters (Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing, #5802)
Spell Law: Of Channeling (Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing, #5803)
Spell Law: Of Essence (Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing, #5804)
Spell Law: Of Mentalism (Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing, #5805)
Gamemaster Law (Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing, #5807)


2000
Treasure Companion (Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing, #5811)
School of Hard Knocks: The Skill Companion (Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing, #5808)
Channeling Companion (Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing, #5809)

2001
Shadow World Master Atlas (2001)

December 2001 Aurigas Aldebaron  buys Rolemaster assets

2002
Fire & Ice: The Elemental Companion (Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing, #5812)
The Armory (Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing, #5813)    • Arms Law & Claw Law (1984, 1989)

2003
Mentalism Companion (Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing, #5814)
Construct Companion (Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing, #5815)
Arms Law (Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing, #5810)

2004
Races & Cultures (Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing, #5816)

2006
Rolemaster Quarterly #1 to #3

2007
Rolemaster Quarterly #5 to #7