Author Topic: Hallucination spell  (Read 1907 times)

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Offline Jengada

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Hallucination spell
« on: October 07, 2024, 05:00:55 PM »
This spell is on two lists, Mentalist base Sense Control and Mystic Confusing Ways. The mystic in my party pulled it out yesterday, and it immediately led to questions. The description is:
"Target sees a nonexistent foe; must fight him until the foe is 'defeated' (i.e. takes damage that would drop the target); foe has same capabilities as target but does no damage (i.e. always misses)."

First question is, if the target has already taken damage (say, half HP and suffering a crit penalty) does "same capabilities" mean the illusory foe starts at half the target's HP and has the same penalty? Or does it start out at full target capabilities?

Second question, consider the case of a target that is a spell caster whose primary spells do not cause damage, like Sleep, Fear, Hold, Confusion, or (pathologically) Hallucination. What qualifies as defeat? Personally I have different answers for the different examples I've given, but I'd like to hear what others think - including other complications or tricky scenarios.

Like so many Rolemaster spells, simple text leads to much ad hoc ruling!
We ask the hard questions here, because they keep us too busy to worry about the hard questions in the real world, and we can go with the answers we like the best.

Offline rdanhenry

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Re: Hallucination spell
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2024, 10:48:16 AM »
Sleep could be said to "drop the target". I don't think any of those other spells mentioned can reasonably be said to do so. So, you still need to get in there and punch that hallucination.
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Offline MisterK

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Re: Hallucination spell
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2024, 01:12:25 PM »
This spell is on two lists, Mentalist base Sense Control and Mystic Confusing Ways. The mystic in my party pulled it out yesterday, and it immediately led to questions. The description is:
"Target sees a nonexistent foe; must fight him until the foe is 'defeated' (i.e. takes damage that would drop the target); foe has same capabilities as target but does no damage (i.e. always misses)."
I think the most important part is in parentheses.

Quote
First question is, if the target has already taken damage (say, half HP and suffering a crit penalty) does "same capabilities" mean the illusory foe starts at half the target's HP and has the same penalty? Or does it start out at full target capabilities?
I'd say it starts at full strength, because it is not specified that it is a copy of the target, only that you need to inflict damage that would drop the target to dispel the hallucination. But I can see why some people would think otherwise.

Quote
Second question, consider the case of a target that is a spell caster whose primary spells do not cause damage, like Sleep, Fear, Hold, Confusion, or (pathologically) Hallucination. What qualifies as defeat? Personally I have different answers for the different examples I've given, but I'd like to hear what others think - including other complications or tricky scenarios.
The spell clarifies that the target needs to inflict enough damage to drop the hallucination. However, you could rule that any spell can affect the hallucination... but since they do not cause damage, the hallucination is still there and the target must still fight it. Time to bring out the kitchen knife, I guess.
Casting Hallucination on an Hallucination would not remove the original specification, which is that the target must still fight their hallucination, regardless of what the hallucination does. Casting Sleep or Hold on it would make it more vulnerable to most damaging attacks, thus making it easier to defeat.

An easier take on the spell (*much* easier, though probably less balanced) would be to rule that the hallucination is immune to non-damaging mental spells (because, as a hallucination, it does not have a mind). This prevents most of the shenanigans listed above. But it is much less fun :) [I *so* love the infinite hallucination loop if the target casts hallucination on the hallucination :p]

As a side (but probably important) note, I would allow indirect damage to affect the hallucination. So, a spell that would push the hallucination off a cliff would probably indirectly inflict enough damage to "drop" it, and, as such, would defeat the hallucination. The spell does not specify that damage inflicted must be inflicted directly. This could open other options (such as using illusion to lure the hallucination into a situation where it would take environmental damage).

Offline Jengada

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Re: Hallucination spell
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2024, 06:00:43 PM »
I think I would make the mental spells affect the hallucination. The target sees something (my caster wanted to specify what that was, which I though was kind of fun) and has to defeat it. If the target is hacking at it, presumably they imagine cuts and blood as they fight it. If the target is hitting it with fire bolts presumably they see the hallucination getting scorched, etc. (and new can of worms, who did they actually hit in the process?) If they are casting mind-spells they think the target is affected, or resisting.
To do otherwise is to make this a mind spell that can totally paralyze any caster who cannot really inflict physical damage. That seems imbalanced.
I think Hold spells cast by the target at the hallucination should leave the target stuck with a concentration dilemma. They can't stab the hallucination or beat it, while they're concentrating, so it's going to be with them as long as they keep concentrating. Could they move away while they concentrate, possibly to close a door and lock it, between them and the hallucination?
I would let a Sleep spell or Fear count as "defeat". With sleep they could get a coup de grace in the next round and be done with it, but with Fear they would think the hallucination was "defeated," running away for so long that the caster could go on to do other things.
We ask the hard questions here, because they keep us too busy to worry about the hard questions in the real world, and we can go with the answers we like the best.