Author Topic: Cost of magic items created using Treasure Law confusion  (Read 3257 times)

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Offline philhall1969

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Cost of magic items created using Treasure Law confusion
« on: September 21, 2024, 02:29:40 PM »
I have a question about the newly released "Treasure Law" item creation rules. Maybe someone can enlighten me....
Here's what I've come up with.....please tell me if I'm wrong here. Thanks in advance.
***
"The Ring of the Robes"
WORK LESSER METALS (5) -- Silver ring (5sp)
CONSTANT X (35)(x2 because "at will")
EMBED X (19)
     "Changing to Kind" --  Closed Essence List (7.2) -- level 4 -- modified to the clothing worn only (x.5 on days required). But it cannot make armor, only mundane clothes--from rags to finery.
SIZING INORGANIC ( 8 ) [Fits any medium-sized being's finger, auto-sizing]
69 Days to make
Highest level spell (Constant X -- 35)(x2 because "at will")
Material Cost: 69sp + 5sp = 74sp
Base Market Cost: 74sp + (2 * 69) + (1sp * (69/40)) = 215sp
Level 35 item
***
What the ring is supposed to do: you put it on, no attunement required, and as you will it your clothing changes into whatever you want. This is a true physical change of the material not an illusion. Ring fits any medium sized being's finger automagically.
Is this correct, or did I miss something? I'm being advised that these values are not correct, and that the rules on page 204 apply, but the rules in the table on 204 don't seem to work properly with table 5-3c. So, I remain confused.
Can someone explain this?

Offline EltonJ

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Re: Cost of magic items created using Treasure Law confusion
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2024, 03:47:29 PM »
Hmm . . . Nash, jDale, Hurin?  I don't have treasure law, but I do have the treasure companion. I can give an answer for RMSS, but not RMU.

Offline Thot

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Re: Cost of magic items created using Treasure Law confusion
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2024, 08:21:23 PM »
I have a question about the newly released "Treasure Law" item creation rules. Maybe someone can enlighten me....
Here's what I've come up with.....please tell me if I'm wrong here. Thanks in advance.
***
"The Ring of the Robes"
WORK LESSER METALS (5) -- Silver ring (5sp)
CONSTANT X (35)(x2 because "at will")
EMBED X (19)
     "Changing to Kind" --  Closed Essence List (7.2) -- level 4 -- modified to the clothing worn only (x.5 on days required). But it cannot make armor, only mundane clothes--from rags to finery.
SIZING INORGANIC ( 8 ) [Fits any medium-sized being's finger, auto-sizing]
69 Days to make
Highest level spell (Constant X -- 35)(x2 because "at will")
Material Cost: 69sp + 5sp = 74sp
Base Market Cost: 74sp + (2 * 69) + (1sp * (69/40)) = 215sp
Level 35 item
***
What the ring is supposed to do: you put it on, no attunement required, and as you will it your clothing changes into whatever you want. This is a true physical change of the material not an illusion. Ring fits any medium sized being's finger automagically.
Is this correct, or did I miss something? I'm being advised that these values are not correct, and that the rules on page 204 apply, but the rules in the table on 204 don't seem to work properly with table 5-3c. So, I remain confused.
Can someone explain this?

I think your market price is way off. Multiply the price per day (which is 35+4=39) by the number of days this takes to enchant (which is 5+35+35+19+8=102 days). In this case, that's 3978 silver pieces.

Granted, you could also just compute the material cost and assume all the labor is for free (for example, because a PC is doing it). Pure material cost would be 35 silver pieces per day, for 102 days, so that's 3570. Suddenly the alchemist's profit doesn't look that good any more. :)

Offline rdanhenry

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Re: Cost of magic items created using Treasure Law confusion
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2024, 08:29:07 PM »
Generally, ring size isn't tracked, because you have a variety of fingers that taper, so a ring will fit on a wide range of hand sizes. This is an unrealistic simplification, so you want to track ring size and require magical Sizing for a ring to cover all Medium wearers, that's cool, but there are only rules for armor fit. However, Changing to Kind doesn't affect clothing in the first place (see the list notes). You really need a different effect. One that I don't think exists. The Psychographer can make clothing that changes appearance with a first level spell (Polymorphic Cloth), but that wouldn't allow changing a T-shirt to a parka, which the described item would do.
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Offline EltonJ

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Re: Cost of magic items created using Treasure Law confusion
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2024, 08:56:30 PM »
Based on what rdanhenry said, you might have to create a spell effect.

Offline Thot

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Re: Cost of magic items created using Treasure Law confusion
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2024, 03:27:06 AM »
[...] Changing to Kind doesn't affect clothing in the first place (see the list notes). You really need a different effect. One that I don't think exists. [...]

I don't find it unreasonable to assume such an effect's spell would have the same level as Changing To Kind.

Offline jdale

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Re: Cost of magic items created using Treasure Law confusion
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2024, 10:14:31 PM »
For Resizing, it certainly doesn't create any balance issues, so I would probably just require a single spell mastery roll to tweak the spell intended for armor. Of course you could also create a new spell list for clothing, along the same lines as Shoe Enchantment. All Sizes is on that list as an 8th level spell.

It seems to me there are a number of unnecessarily complicated design constraints here. For example, if you provided a limited number of outfits you could use Multiform. If you don't need it to be a real physical change, there are various illusionary ways to change an outfit, and that also solves the fit problem. Putting the enchantment in a ring is more complicated than putting the enchantment in the outfit itself. Etc. So basically the general problem of having an outfit for every occasion is solvable in multiple ways, if you want to solve it in an extremely specific way that is different from all of them, maybe take one of those existing methods and use it as a general baseline for the item cost and level, and then use GM fiat and don't worry about the rest of the details.

Regarding pg 204 (table 6-1c) vs table 5-3c, they should give the same results. Using a level 1 essence effect as an example, the spells involved are Work Lesser Metals (5), Embed I (3), Constant III (17), and the spell to be embedded (1). Except... I think there is an error now that you mention it and they are actually calculated based on Work Mundane Wood (4). So the item level is 17, the total levels are 4+3+17+1 = 25, and the price is 17 sp materials + 2 sp labor = 19 sp per day for 25 days = 475 sp. So that Work spell might be throwing you off.
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