Rolemaster Unified art: what happened?

[Hurin]

I do know that there was discussion about whether to use color art for RMU. So it was something that was debated, at least.

[Melkor]

As someone who's first RPG was MERP, and who has had a lifelong love of Rolemaster, I have to say that while I love what was done rules-wise with RMU, the art

While art is certainly subjective, the old ICE art of Angus McBride and others are what really inspired me to stick with RM in my younger days (when there were easier systems that were much more digestible to kids our age). I even own an original sketch by McBride.

RMU art does the opposite of inspire. It is even cringe-inducing in a lot of ways. It does not make me want to pick up and play the game, it makes me want to strip out the text and lay it out with better art.
Having been a professional graphic designer for 15+ years at one point in my career, I might try and do that in my spare time one of these days. Sadly, I don't have a lot of it these days.

[Christoffer Holm]

Having had time to live with it for a while now, I also like almost all of the RMU art. Unfortunately, I really dislike the covers and that first impression influenced my judgement of all of the art for a while.

I wish the covers were done in the same style as the images at the start of most chapters. Those feel like Rolemaster to me and the covers simply don't.

Interestingly I frequently had the opposite problem with earlier editions. The cover art was great and some of the interior images were lacking. But for me the absolute worse art problem was the attempt to create a new design aesthetic for Shadow World with the Master Atlas 4 and Powers of Light & Darkness. My dislike of the RMU covers is nothing compared to my loathing for those because it extended to replacing the white space on each page with that hideous dark frame.

I am mostly the same. One of the strengths of Rolemaster is its grittiness and granularity -- call it realism if you want, or at least an attempt at being more realistic than D&D, which was in fact the original impetus for Rolemaster -- and the covers do not convey that at all. They are more cartoony. I wasn't expecting another Angus McBride, but there is interior art that is considerably better than the covers.

I wholeheartedly agree here. The cover art doesn't convey the essence if Rolemaster and it is unfortunate.

Some interior art is good, some passable and a notable amount is amateurish, for lack of a better word.

[Micael]

The rapid advancements in artificial intelligence (AI) over the past year have significantly reduced the gap between AI-generated and human-created art. Experts anticipate that AI's imperfections will soon be comparable to those of human artists. This evolution mirrors the Industrial Revolution, where machine-produced goods, though initially lacking the unique charm of handcrafted items, eventually dominated the market due to efficiency and cost-effectiveness. Consequently, artisans had to adapt, often by organizing into collectives, to regain competitive advantages, leading to widespread economic prosperity.

However, this transition also resulted in substantial job displacement among manual workers. To avoid repeating such challenges, it's crucial to implement strategies that mitigate job losses as AI continues to integrate into creative industries. Proactive measures, such as reskilling programs and policies that promote collaboration between human creativity and AI capabilities, can help ensure a more inclusive and prosperous future for all. But I am sure, that will force a lot of people to change their way of live and that is always producing unhappyness.

Anyway nobody uses only AI- most are doing a mix from both, enhancing their work and speeding it up considerably.
The integration of artificial intelligence (AI) across various professions has become increasingly prevalent, with many professionals combining AI tools with traditional methods to enhance efficiency and output quality. Out of interest I am interviewing many peoples around me in different jobs. This trend is evident among doctors, artists, authors, car manufacturers, working facilities (for diagnosis), columnists, attourneys and journalists, who are leveraging AI to remain competitive in their fields. The pressure to adopt AI arises from the need to match the accelerated production rates and quality achieved by peers utilizing these technologies. I am working myself in a very big car company- they have internally decided to change there structure using AI as one important point to be mor ecompetitive otherwise loosing more and more market chare to chinese car companies. We have started a fight for our jobs and against layoffs in great style. But we are all knowing, that we have to develop ourself- we can try to stop the evolution for a time but not for ever- so we will try to change our work, finding new interesting jobs for those, who are in danger of loosing theirs.

For instance, AI-powered chatbots like ChatGPT have revolutionized how individuals seek assistance with complex software issues. Users can speak specific questions in natural language and receive immediate, teacher-like explanations, streamlining the problem-solving process. This approach often proves more efficient than traditional internet searches, which may yield outdated or irrelevant information. However, it's important to acknowledge that AI-generated responses are not infallible and should be critically evaluated.

The adoption of AI tools has led to significant productivity gains. A McKinsey survey revealed that 65% of respondents' organizations regularly use generative AI, nearly doubling from the previous year.

Additionally, a Microsoft report indicated that 75% of knowledge workers utilize AI in their jobs, with 90% reporting time savings and 85% experiencing improved focus on important tasks.


Despite these advantages, professionals must remain vigilant regarding the accuracy of AI-generated information. While AI can expedite tasks, it is not immune to errors, and users should critically assess AI outputs. Moreover, the rapid integration of AI into various sectors underscores the importance of continuous learning and adaptation to effectively harness these technologies.

In summary, the strategic use of AI, in conjunction with traditional methods, enables professionals to enhance their work quality and efficiency. As AI becomes more embedded in professional environments, staying informed about its capabilities and limitations is crucial for maintaining a competitive edge.
Not mistaken, I respect the view of ICE working mainly without AI.... but as this thread shows plainly the pressure to get high quality art also in Rolemaster Books (as more and more even small Game companies produce high quality art without effort & without much cost).
Hope that we all find a solution where everybody is happy with...
Micael

[MisterK]

Hope that we all find a solution where everybody is happy with...

If human history is any indication, we won't.

This is a completely different situation from the industrial revolution, because the industrial revolution actually required manpower - more than before, actually. Whereas the AI 'revolution' does not require more people - the very idea is to require *less* people. Those who believe all will work out in the end are just deluding themselves.

The only question is how many unemployed and impoverished people society is willing to live with before the whole thing comes crashing down.

I, for one, am OK with AI replacing people at their jobs... as long as we keep paying those people for the job they are not doing anymore. Basically, a society where no one works for a living. If someone can actually create this utopia where people do something because they actually want to instead of because they have to, I'm all for it.

I'm not holding my breath, though.

[Micael]

 - completely diffferent - I don't see it as a completely different situation. During the Industrial Revolution, many highly skilled artisans who crafted goods by hand lost their jobs. However, the lower prices of factory-made goods made them accessible to more people, which increased demand and created many new jobs. Similarly, in the future, there will likely be a growing need for controllers to oversee and correct the sometimes flawed outputs of AI systems. As prices drop, businesses that previously couldn't afford high-quality art will start purchasing it. I could be wrong, but it seems like a very similar pattern to me.

[jdale]

I don't know where things will go, but right now there is a significant proportion of customers who will simply not buy products with AI generated content. All the discussion about remaining vigilant about AI-induced errors etc are completely irrelevant if people won't buy your product.

I suspect once the core is done, we will do only black and white art in companions, which renders a lot of this thread irrelevant. Obviously we're not going to redo all the art in the core so ok, noted, moving on.

[Micael]

So what about two versions for Rolemaster products, one for people who don't want AI at all and another one for people who don't mind?
The main point is art, so if there is somebody who will just change pictures it is not so much more effort and in the end there will be all customers satisfied?

[jdale]

That would be a significant investment of time and effort (which equals expense) to generate the art and update the layout. In order to do something that we and many customers feel is morally wrong.

[nash]

So what about two versions for Rolemaster products, one for people who don't want AI at all and another one for people who don't mind?
The main point is art, so if there is somebody who will just change pictures it is not so much more effort and in the end there will be all customers satisfied?

You can go generate some images yourself and paste them over your own copy?

The number of extra sales from books with AI images replacing the current ones would be less than minimal.

[Melkor]

I don't know where things will go, but right now there is a significant proportion of customers who will simply not buy products with AI generated content. All the discussion about remaining vigilant about AI-induced errors etc are completely irrelevant if people won't buy your product.

I suspect once the core is done, we will do only black and white art in companions, which renders a lot of this thread irrelevant. Obviously we're not going to redo all the art in the core so ok, noted, moving on.

I know all of this puts you in a tough spot Jdale. I sympathize.

On the one hand, you want to appeal to the current generation of gamers to generate interest and sales, and the industry standard is now full color layout and art throughout. That is expensive to source and print for either the company or customer (if relying on a third party like DriveThru to handle printing).

On the other hand, AI art is it's own can of worms.

And then there are people like me who prefer the old school black & white matte game book pages with line-art style interior illustrations, so I am really happy to hear that after Core, you will be moving to that style for future books.

[Micael]

So what about two versions for Rolemaster products, one for people who don't want AI at all and another one for people who don't mind?
The main point is art, so if there is somebody who will just change pictures it is not so much more effort and in the end there will be all customers satisfied?

You can go generate some images yourself and paste them over your own copy?

The number of extra sales from books with AI images replacing the current ones would be less than minimal.

I can also create my own houserules, adventure... but I love getting into visions from other peoples and be surprised and save time in buying it.
There was never a poll, so nobody knows how many more fans would be happy with full color layout. It could even be, that more then half of them would buy the full color version- who knows? But anyway in my profession is customer satisfaction anything- could be that in RolePlaying Game Business it's something else, who knows... But I can tell you the following- I bought the D&D campaign books for spelljammer and planescape 5ed only because of fantastic art reasons. Really playing 40 years RPGs there is not much in rules or adventures that can be made better then the last 40 years, but the art was much better. But I understand that there are many people with different interests...

[jdale]

If we had a WotC/Hasbro budget, the art would be different. That's just not reality.

[Cory Magel]

If we had a WotC/Hasbro budget, the art would be different. That's just not reality.

I'm pretty confident in saying there is no other RPG company with a WotC budget.
Probably not even just an RPG budget, although Pathfinder might be making headway on the RPG specific part.

[5th Knight of Xar]

This should be read and understood by those having a mental breakdown over the artwork front to back of the new RMU books, specifically those complaining that "it doesn't convey Rolemaster". What is Rolemaster?
The Rolemaster fantasy roleplaying game system is primarily a rules system rather than a game tied to a specific setting or world. It is designed to be highly adaptable and modular, allowing game masters to integrate it into any fantasy world of their choosing, including homebrew settings or established worlds from other game systems. Imagine that. However, Rolemaster has been associated with several settings over the years, most notably  Shadow World and MERP, no bomb there.

Rolemaster's modularity has made it popular for adapting to any fantasy world. Its emphasis on detailed mechanics, such as critical hit tables and diverse character customization, allows the rpg system to be tailored to almost any narrative or tone a rpg group prefers.

I'd say if you're not happy with the new books, your own mindset is to blame in this case.

[pastaav]

Is the current discussion really adding anything new that has not been said plenty of times in this thread?

I suggest starting a new thread if you want to talk about any of the topics more in detail. Trying to continue this thread is bound to give worse results.

[Christoffer Holm]

The only reason we are voicing our concerns regarding this is to support the development of the game and IP. The game means too much for me to ignore problems.

I am very active in the local TTRPG community in my town and unfortunately players are turned away from the game by the visual aspect, no matter how much I try to convinced them to give it a chance.

I want RMU to prosper.

[Micael]

This should be read and understood by those having a mental breakdown over the artwork front to back of the new RMU books, specifically those complaining that "it doesn't convey Rolemaster". What is Rolemaster?
The Rolemaster fantasy roleplaying game system is primarily a rules system rather than a game tied to a specific setting or world. It is designed to be highly adaptable and modular, allowing game masters to integrate it into any fantasy world of their choosing, including homebrew settings or established worlds from other game systems. Imagine that. However, Rolemaster has been associated with several settings over the years, most notably  Shadow World and MERP, no bomb there.

Both could be the same—the German RFRPG Rolemaster books are full-color hardbound editions with pictures designed all over the books, and I proudly display them on my bookshelf. I even bought them simply because they looked and felt so good. It's remarkable that a German company, years ago in 2016 (even before the pandemic), managed to achieve something that the original creators of Rolemaster, ICE, could not. Similar with RM2 - I own "leather-look" bound german Rolemaster books...

As for the setting argument, I'm concerned that ICE might take a similar approach with new Shadow World books, applying the same imo "flawed" logic. I purchased (was attracted by) the Shadow World box set 30 years ago primarily because of its exceptional cover design. Terry improved the colour art and graphic design step by step in every book. If we want to attract more players in the future, I strongly believe that art must be an integral part of the design process. Nobody today is expecting black-and-white graphics, except for old-school fans, who are dwindling (sadly) anyway. Otherwise, we risk losing more players and struggling to attract new ones.

We're living in a time when visuals—pictures, videos, and presentations—are more important than ever, and with enough effort and dedication, anyone can achieve remarkable results in this area.

That said, you're right—all the points have been made, and now it's up to the decision-makers to shape the future.

[kwickham]

I haven't posted in a long time, so I'm arriving late.

Commenting on the books I own, I can only comment on the Core Law and Spell Law books.

Opening my RMU Core Law PDF, I compared the Core Law with the OP's stuff, a few of the OP's samples. I don't see the art there any better. Subjectively, the OP's previews looks the similar, or a bit lower quality in some of the preview pieces. I wish i could say to, "do that," but i can't.

But I would rather chime in on support for art that complements current IP such as the Sstoi'isslythi, Idiyva, and Gratar races. I clap for whoever decided to put the image on the back cover of the Core Law book with the non-traditional looking creatures which contrasts the cover (which may or may not be fighting the four on the cover) . I wish that Spell Law had one or two of the nonhuman race spell casters like any of the said races, more specific to the core law races, besides the Orcish looking character banging the drum on page 18.

So, my hopes is the art will support the IP to some degree.

Comparing the two RMU books to the big company RPG core books that I own (which will remain nameless), besides having unified styles of art (a result of big $$), they focus on their art that features and showcases their IP (something to a lesser degree that might be attainable with less $$). That can be something that even a low-budget publisher might aim for, even with budget restraints.

[assur]

Coming to the juice of the matter, in the director's briefing of april it is stated creature's law is on its way to be released.
I've got no expectations on art quality.
I fear races in core law will be the nightmarish model for all art inside creature law.
What are your expectations?