Topic: I don't get darkness spells

[alloowishus]

In *gasp* D&D darkness is a second level spell, in RM the equivalent lesser utterdark is 10th. Darkness described as "natural darkness". So what is the point? Any light can illuminate natural darkness, so the spell seems kind of useless.

[MisterK]

It is a first level spell that creates 'darkest night' (moonless and starless) visual conditions in a 20' radius that moves with the point touched. What more do you expect from a first level spell ?

Sure, any created light can illuminate darkness, but depending on how you use the spell
- it can be used to deepen shadows and make stealth easier
- dropped in daytime conditions, it can basically be used to create chaos in a scene if people (being in daylight conditions and all) do not have a lighting implement at hand - because trying to get it in darkness will take a bit of time. The second spell on the list is nightvision and makes a good combo in a pinch if you're looking for an advantage or a quick escape option.
- darkness blocks most normal vision, which is great to reduce effectiveness of archers, especially since the area moves.
- it can also be used as a very low-level cost-effective deterrent: most people are very wary of dark places, especially if the darkness seems magical. After all, what you can't see *will* hurt you.

[jdale]

I don't know if this is spelled out anywhere in RM2/RMC or RMSS/RMFRP, but in RMU the rule is:

Light versus Darkness: Magical darkness completely hides non-magical sources of light, but is overcome by magical light. Utterdark spells suppress even magical light, except for Utterlight. Normal fires, torches, and the like will still produce heat in an area of magical darkness, and will continue to burn (and ignite combustible materials), but will not produce any light. Upon exiting an area of suppressing darkness, normal or magical light will spring up again (unless extinguished or expired in the meantime). Likewise, upon the removal of a suppressing magical (Utter)light, magical (Utter)darkness will resume if not expired. Actually eliminating, rather than suppressing, magical light or darkness requires dispelling it.

I think this is generally the intent in previous editions even if it wasn't always as clear. So, magical darkness is not going to be defeated by lighting a lantern (because if it was, why isn't it also defeated by sunlight or whatever light sources are already present?). It's only going to be defeated by a light spell.

[MisterK]

This was also the case in RMSS, at least (section 7.1.20 of Spell Law). I couldn't find it in RM2 Spell Law. It makes sense, even though I am not always keen on using real-world physics logic to judge the effects of magic spells - it could have been that 'natural' (sun-, moon-, starlight) could not penetrate, but 'created' light (torch-, lanternlight) could. Furthermore, 'the darkest night' is not exactly pitch black, so there's some wiggle room for interpretation here.

But since it simplifies the spell effect, I'm all for using it.

[alloowishus]

I don't know if this is spelled out anywhere in RM2/RMC or RMSS/RMFRP, but in RMU the rule is:

Light versus Darkness: Magical darkness completely hides non-magical sources of light, but is overcome by magical light. Utterdark spells suppress even magical light, except for Utterlight. Normal fires, torches, and the like will still produce heat in an area of magical darkness, and will continue to burn (and ignite combustible materials), but will not produce any light. Upon exiting an area of suppressing darkness, normal or magical light will spring up again (unless extinguished or expired in the meantime). Likewise, upon the removal of a suppressing magical (Utter)light, magical (Utter)darkness will resume if not expired. Actually eliminating, rather than suppressing, magical light or darkness requires dispelling it.

I think this is generally the intent in previous editions even if it wasn't always as clear. So, magical darkness is not going to be defeated by lighting a lantern (because if it was, why isn't it also defeated by sunlight or whatever light sources are already present?). It's only going to be defeated by a light spell.

Yeah that's the way I am going to run it, otherwise it doesn't make sense.

[jdale]

In RMU, "darkest night" is a -70 penalty (half for actions where vision is helpful but not completely required), and nightvision would reduce that penalty by 40 (to -30). Whereas pitch black / utterdark is -100 and nightvision does not help. In RMSS, you would use the "dark" modifier vs "pitch black". I don't know about RM2/RMC.