Author Topic: Kneeling or Prone targeting bonus for Crossbow (gun) : Firing Combat Question  (Read 2954 times)

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Offline Dreven1

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Hello my fellow GM's!!!!!  :D

Another beautiful day in the world of fantasy and fiction!

I have a question from one of my Archer players.  He is a bit dismayed that Rolemaster (in all of its complexity and detail) does not have any guidelines with bonuses for steady fire with a "gun" style missile weapons. (a.k.a. Crossbow, Hand-Crossbow, blowgun, black powder gun, etc).

Here is the issue:
Archer #1 is going to fire on a group.  He wanted to know if he knelt or went prone if he would get a "steady" bonus for being in those positions.  I have fired a X-bow (modern) and found that with that or a gun (rifle) that i am MUCH more accurate when I kneel or rest the gun on something (a shoulder, the ground, etc).

Are there any really slick rules on how this is done? I need simple yet affective rules.  I don?t want to make this any more complex but I do want to add a hint more realism without overpowering the "gun" type weapons.

In other words, I don?t want to give a bonus (say +30 to OB) to a weapon just because you are prone... that to me is TOO powerful and offsets the balance of the weapons. However, I still want to be fair to the "realism" of the weapon.

Any ideas?  ???

Thanks!  :)
Dreven
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Offline Temujin

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I think a +10 would be acceptable bonus, stackable with deliberate action, but it should take some percent of action to prepare yourself, and you would have the downside of already being prone if someone closes in melee with you.

Offline Right Wing Wacko

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Just give him a +10...
... and remember that reloading might not be that easy while prone and he will have to spend some activity to stand up again...



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Offline Dreven1

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Since going to prone from standing would be 20% of your action (according to RMSS) then they would have 80% of their action left.  Then, it takes 30-60% of your action to make a full Missile attack with no negatives.
So, basically he can get a +10 to OB with his Missile fire if he does this, however it would take more time to reload because reloading was not meant to do on the ground? So a good ruling would be to simply double the reload time?

Sound good?
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Offline markc

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 I do not know if going prone at 20% would or would not knock the bolt out of a crossbow. But I would be inclined to slightly increase the action% to 25% or 30%.
 I also think I would give a bonus of +1 per rank to OB if aimed for 1 whole round. If you wanted to break it down into a partial bonus for a partial round then be sure to have most of the bonus apply at the back end of the time period. This is because you are more steady in your shot at the end.

MDC
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Offline Dreven1

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Hey Markc!

According to RMSS, 10% for a rapid drop to the ground and 20% careful drop to the ground (so I would say that the arrow/bolt might be misplaced if it was a rapid drop).

I like the idea of having to "aim" the whole round however I dont like the idea of having an additional bonus that can "grow" over time... just a tad bit too powerful for me.  I would rather give a flat bonus... like the +10.

Good point!
Dreven
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Offline markc

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Dreven1,
 I use a home made combat system so I am not used to the one in the book. I am glad that you have found something that will work for you.

 Also I have played in some games where the limit the bonus you can get for actions based on how many ranks you have in the skill. This prevents someone who has 1 rank and a skill bonus of +10 getting a large bonus and a better chance of achieving what they want.

MDC
Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.

Online rdanhenry

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Note that I cannot think of any portrayal in print or art from history or recreations that shows any of these pre-modern weapons being used by someone who is prone (exception: blowgun used by warrior lying flat on a branch, but this is as much for stealth as aiming and might be a movie thing anyway). Any advantage should be offset with penalties. Also note that firing from a lower position reduces the range of the missile (more significant with shorter ranged weapons). You also run the risk of obstacles, even simply foot-high grasses, obscuring the target.

According to some depictions, Chinese crossbowmen using mass-firing techniques fired while supine, but that does not allow for precise aiming. Depending on crossbow design, this can improve leverage for reloading.

Kneeling is shown in several sources, including medieval illustrations of the crossbow, but always behind a defensive barrier (where loss of time to reload and get back into firing position is not an issue).

I would be happy assuming that any appropriate steadying of the weapon is assumed in the weapon tables and improved OB comes partly from better skill in the necessary techniques. I can see granting a small firing bonus while kneeling or prone (and more importantly, I'd grant prone a *bonus* rather than a malus against incoming missiles, or at least not make a prone target easier to hit). You can also gain a bonus to Hiding for ambushes, but reloading should require changing position and the loss of time should be sufficient that normal usage penalizes rather than rewards the firer for getting into these positions. Otherwise, one would have expected them to be standard methods. I would prevent anyone kneeling or prone to shoot from using DB from Quickness, since he is trying to minimize movement.
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Offline markc

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 I could be very wrong on this but I seem to remember that most crossbows have square shaped bodies. Would this shape provide a bonus while resting? I guess you could also use a brace like the early firearms did but again IMO you might gain some stability but lose a fair amont of accercy.

MDC
Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.