Topic: Adrenal Defense question RMSS + Talent Law + MA Companion

[Dreven1]

Question:

Adrenal Defense seems very powerful.  I have a 2nd level character that has the MA talent, a high QU and is using a style that gives a HUGE bonus to DB.
Here is what he has:
+15 to category for Adrenals
Train Adrenal defense as Everyman
High QU
MA Style that allows +15 for a bonus to Adrenal Category

Now, this character has a +75 nerve strikes and a +90DB AT 2ND LEVEL.
This seems crazy...

Please help with these questions:
1) Does this player need to roll an Adrenal Maneuver every time he wants to use Adrenal defense like the other Adrenals?
2) The old rules stated that you added the # of RANKs not the BONUS to DB. Adding the bonus seems ridiculous... is this right?
3) Is this +90 DB only vs. 1 opponent?
4) Does using this ability take up the entire round of action? (Which is what I think it needs to do) or can the Warrior Monk do full attacks and maneuvers during the round also?

IS this right?!  Please help as this seems awfully imbalanced. 
Drev

[yammahoper]

The AD requires 40% activity to use every melee rnd (thus reducing the martial artist OB by 40). 

The AD is usable against all attacks the martial artist is aware of, but only half against ranged, thrown and bolt spells.

In my game, AD is useless against area effect spells, like fire ball or hand grenades.

Those two plus fifteens are a big deal, as is the EV man rating.

[markc]

Also his style may readuce the % activity to 10% action.
 
 Yes it is powerful and remember that TL came out before the MAC and talents can unbalance any PC. In my game I have recosted most talents and deleted quite a few as being too powerful for my game.
 
 There are some additional rules for using AD in the MAC that you may want to look at; such as using Adrenals round to round and other things to keep balance. I would also not have him be AT-1 but AT-2 as that also adds to his DB; AT-1 is for fast creatures IMHO and is a House Rukes Arms Law fix.
 
MDC 

[Usdrothek]

Plus you have to have be able to move in an unrestricted fashion to use adrenal defence. So not tied up, not trudging through thick mud, crawling down a narrow tunnel, whilst climbing.

I have had 2 warrior monks in my game with the same shtick (big QU bonus, MA training, hammerhand etc). Its annoying, but they do come up against situations where their AD fails.

[Ecthelion]

Yes it is powerful and remember that TL came out before the MAC and talents can unbalance any PC. In my game I have recosted most talents and deleted quite a few as being too powerful for my game.

We went so far and completely removed the use of Talent Law or Character Law.

[markc]

Yes it is powerful and remember that TL came out before the MAC and talents can unbalance any PC. In my game I have recosted most talents and deleted quite a few as being too powerful for my game.

We went so far and completely removed the use of Talent Law or Character Law.

  I agree that they can make a huge difference in any game.
MDC

[Dreven1]

Great suggestions guys! Thank you!

As a note: I also limit Talent $#( Law but only restrict things like Power and Blessed by a War god.  I also do not allow double stacking talents (giving OB bonus and then getting another to get a larger OB bonus)

This player used a stack of TL Talent, MAC Style to circumvent that.

I like the -40 to melee and 40% activity - I don’t think we were using that! I need to READ more LOL!

Now this brings up a question...

I didn’t think you could melee with just 40% of your action left? I thought to make a full melee attack it was 80-100% and bows were 30-60%?

Could someone let me know quickly and simply...what the difference is between:
1) Full melee attack
2) Press and melee
3) React and melee

We always just use 80-100% for melee and it makes things simple.  Can someone shoot me a quick page number where I can find the descriptions of these? (This might be a new thread)

[Kristen Mork]

I don't have page numbers for you, but I can summarize the three:

• Full attack: The attacker must declare the target, and cannot pursue (+10, minimum 80% activity)
• React: The attacker need not declare a target, and can move to engage (-10, minimum 60% activity)
• Press: The attacker must declare the target, but can follow (0, minimum 60% activity)

IIRC, movement penalties are halved for react and pressing attacks.

[Dreven1]

I don't have page numbers for you, but I can summarize the three:

• Full attack: The attacker must declare the target, and cannot pursue (+10, minimum 80% activity)
• React: The attacker need not declare a target, and can move to engage (-10, minimum 60% activity)
• Press: The attacker must declare the target, but can follow (0, minimum 60% activity)

IIRC, movement penalties are halved for react and pressing attacks.

Does this apply to RMSS?

[Kristen Mork]

Full, react and pressing attacks were introduced in RMSS.  I think they also apply to RMFRP.  I know they weren't present in RM2 at all.  I can't speak to RMC/X.

[yammahoper]

One other thing about press and melee: 5 cost for movement to follow foe is halved.  It's the perfect call to prevent a foe from running away, or crossing a room to take a wack at something.

[Dreven1]

My concern was a bowman with 60% for a full missile attack could then move 40% of movement....

A fighter on him could only full melee with 80% and then only move 20% so the bowman was always outpacing the fighter.

[Kristen Mork]

If we assume that both can move at the same speed:

• Case 1: Swordman attacks pressing (100%), then bow shoots [1], then bowman moves = sword gets full OB (possibly modified by -20 if during the Snap phase), bowman shoots if he's still alive (possibly at -20 as well) and then moves 40' (assuming run w/ 50' BMR)
• Case 2: Bow shoots, swordman attacks pressing (100%), then bowman moves = bow gets full OB (possibly at -20), then sword gets full OB (possibly at -20 or +10) assuming he's still alive, then bowman moves 40'
• Case 3: Bow shoots, bowman moves, swordman attacks pressing (100%) = bow gets full OB (possibly at -20), then bowman moves 40', then swordman moves 40' in pursuit (-20 for using 40% movement) and attacks (possibly at +10 for Deliberate phase)

At the end of the round, the distance between the two is 40' (case 1 or 2) or 0' (case 3).  If they're not in melee range, the fighter can use another pressing attack the next round to close the distance.

In short, the swordman will generally win this fight!  (Given the ambiguity of the "disengage from melee" option, the GM might rule that the bowman cannot declare a move action while in melee range, he must instead declare a disengage action, which further decreases the distance he can escape.)

[1] The bowman also suffers the penalty for shooting while in melee, if that's even allowed.

[Soulcleave]

    Based on the initial Post...Yes this is Possible, and his Flaws should be either Crippling or Exceptionally annoying.

     When I quickly worked up an Adrenal Defense Monster I was able to get these bonuses at 1st level.  (ok I got the DB to 112...including Adreal Defense)

However, There is something that came to my attention.
      MAC pg.43 (9.2.1.) He cannot get a Bonus to adrenal defense through the style...especially a +15 Bonus. (The only option allows a +10 bonus to a Restricted Skill.  Adrenal Defense is no longer Restricted.  (And Special Defense Skills are specifically mentioned in the Non-restricted Skills). ok so this is splitting hairs but...
     MAC pg.43 (9.2.2) Adrenal Defense Options.  40% action for Adrenal Defense.  It is not a "Free" ("Free" actions do not take one of the "Snap/Normal/Deliberate" Actions available) action.  Lesser Adrenal Defense makes it a "Free" action and makes it a 30% action.  Greater Adrenal Defense makes it a "Free" action and 10% activity.

     In short yes this is so...He does not have to make a skill roll, just be aware of the attack, and have nothing in his hands.  The style bonus is also the Limit to the OB available to make an attack.  If you are making an attack and the Nerve Strikes Bonus is 100, but the Style bonus is only 30, you are limited to making the +30 Nerve Strike attack if you want to use the Style Bonuses,  Including Adrenal Defense(Lesser or Greater) and Maximum Rank of Attack (Rank 1 if not using the Style, Style Maximum if using the Style).

     These are just some things to think about.  The Flip side is the Flaws that were taken...These could be used to annoy the character, and based on how many points were used for the tallents they could be rather Annoying.

     This is one reason I have decided not to use Tallent Points.  I use Background Options.  (Anyone using options from MAC also has the option of taking the Flaw from MAC instead of what is rolled on the "Other" chart.

     Sorry...I ramble...

Eric "Soulcleave" Gibbons

ps. And in case you were wondering...
 
  High Elf Warrior Monk (+6 racial QU/90 Stat)
  [30] Martial Arts Training (Talent Law pg.)
  [30] Stat Bonus Greater (Talent Law pg.40)
  [10] Natural Gift (MAC pg.62)
  Style (Advanced Style 60 points)
  [20] Striking attacks Rank 4
         Nerve Strikes Rank 4
         Sweeping Rank 2
         Locking Holds Rank 1
  [15] + 10 Bonus to Adrenal Defense
  [20] Greater Adrenal Defense
    [5] +1 to Initiative
Common Man Warrior Monk would only have to get 10 points of Flaws and would still have a 94DB...at 1st level.

High Elf would have to get 50 points of Flaws...

[markc]

SoulCleave;
 I agree and that is why as a GM for a long running game I sit down and make the PC's with the player one on one. I agree this is not the way a lot of people do it or can do it but IMHO it works the best. I also during this time keep a firm eye on talents and rule out any that I see are going to be a problem when stacked together.


As for talents I use the base reasoning that 10 TP = {+10 in a skill (1-10 TP =1-10 in a skill) or +5 in a cat or +1 in a stat or 1 roll on a table (2nd roll is more expensive) or cut 1 TP price and time in 1/2} and it gets more expensive from there. I do have some racial talents that are cheaper for one race vs another and I am thinking about having some talents depend on social class/PC background (which IMHO is picked first before everything else) but in general the RMSS Talent Law is useful to me for race creation and ideas. The talents that break the base formula above I tend to throw out.

MDC