Topic: A GIANT of a roleplaying situation

[Perrian]

A Call out to Players and GMs alike for suggestions, warnings and good ideas alike.

I'm joining a new RM2 game and for a change of pace I let the dice determine my race and class based on the PC races for the world.

Result:   Race= Storm Giant     Class:  Leader

Neither the GM or I (the player) have dealt with such a large race before and it obviously brings up alot of interesting Roleplaying fun... but from a mechanics standpoint it throws a wrench in the works, so both me and the GM are doing alot of reading on what we can expect by adding such a large character into a party.

Has any one else run with a giant before?   Do you have any suggestions on working with them in the game, mechanic issues we need to be aware of and the ilk?

Looking forward to your replies
Perrian

[arnecooper]

I wouldn't allow Storm Giant as a player character's race. The playable races are designed to maintain some sort of balance between the players.

[Perrian]

The Giant isnt particular out of balance with the rest of the party so that really isn't an issue here.    Its more of a size and social interaction issue more than anything else.    This is a roleplaying group not a hack and slash one which is why the potential is so interesting.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Problems

Finding properly sized equipment and clothing

Being able to fit inside most human-sized establishments

No mounts, so you have to walk everywhere

Your a frickin' Giant!! Unless Giants wander the world, visiting towns on a regular basis, expect almost everybody to be afraid of you (and likely trying to kill you)

You will need a lot of food, expect to have to eat about 5-10 times the amount a human does just to stay healthy

Not being able to fit in most "dungeons" either.

[arnecooper]

Rasyr has pretty much summed it up. Size is a major issue. What if the giant were somehow trapped in a human body, perhaps through some kind of curse or magic? Maybe it could be part of his ongoing quest to regain his former self. Maybe through his ordeal, he learns what it means to be human and develops a sympathy for the smaller race. Just an idea.

[Arioch]

What kind of campaign are you going to play in?

If it's a classic dungeon-crawling campaign, the major problems will be those written by Rasyr (finding equipment, being unable to fit in most buildings...).

As a GM I'd probably make Storm Giants an important element of the campaign: for example, they could be ancient enemies of the free-races, recently turned into allies against a common foe (dragons, other giant races, undead,...).
This way your character could be part of a diplomatic team, and your job could be helping the small ones to do something, gaining their trust.
You'll have to deal with the general mistrust in you race and with cultural differencies.

This would create challenge both on the roleplaying and on the mechanics sides: you'll have to put a lot of efforts (DPs) into learning Lores and Languages to interact with the smaller races. And this, together with size problems, would somewhat balance the fact that you're a natural born warrior.

[pastaav]

Not being able to fit in most "dungeons" either.

You could argue that GM should adjust the size of giants in his world so such a player can fit most "dungeons" and buildings with some effort. There is nothing fun with a player been forced to leave the room every time something interesting happens.

In general I think the important thing to watch mechanic wise is interaction of hits and what attack table to be used. A creature that is large need more concussion hits to stay conscious than an normal sized character because of the extra concussion hits delivered to those creatures. Starting the character at a low level need careful thought about what critical status the character will have and what rules apply if he is ever to change size.

[Perrian]

Rasyr has pretty much summed it up. Size is a major issue. What if the giant were somehow trapped in a human body, perhaps through some kind of curse or magic? Maybe it could be part of his ongoing quest to regain his former self. Maybe through his ordeal, he learns what it means to be human and develops a sympathy for the smaller race. Just an idea.

The GM hit me up with some background details, and it looks like sympathy and overwhelming interest of the smaller races is going to be factor in the story line.   Skills that can help me overcome social stigmas appear to be a priority on my purchase list.

[Perrian]

What kind of campaign are you going to play in?

If it's a classic dungeon-crawling campaign, the major problems will be those written by Rasyr (finding equipment, being unable to fit in most buildings...).

As a GM I'd probably make Storm Giants an important element of the campaign: for example, they could be ancient enemies of the free-races, recently turned into allies against a common foe (dragons, other giant races, undead,...).
This way your character could be part of a diplomatic team, and your job could be helping the small ones to do something, gaining their trust.
You'll have to deal with the general mistrust in you race and with cultural differencies.

This would create challenge both on the roleplaying and on the mechanics sides: you'll have to put a lot of efforts (DPs) into learning Lores and Languages to interact with the smaller races. And this, together with size problems, would somewhat balance the fact that you're a natural born warrior.

Dungeon-crawling was a concern for me when the race came up but the GM said the leans toward more open world content, course I'm thinking some DPs in Restricted Space Combat is going to be prudent, but like you said DPs into lores, langueges, and diplomancy will be mandatory for survival more than Combat skills...  no combat monster for me (which I like... more of a thinking player).    Winning over the smaller races with favors (specialization in retrieving cats from trees and thatching roofs) is going to be as dicey as combat (I foresee running from villagers with pitchforks and torches).

As it stands my entry into the game actually levels the playing field against the major enemy(Demons) in the campaign on the physical side... but size doesn't matter against any magic and just standing there I'll be come target #1 in any engagement.  That does poise a bit of concern for me.. .sure I'm going to have tons of concussion points but its the crits I'm going to have to deal with and thats not something I'm sure I can lessen or counter act.   Sure there is armor but good luck finding enough steel to make me anything metal.   Common sense tells me leather is probably the best I can do.     I think looking mean is going to be the best defense I'll have.

As reference the party is made up of an Elven Houri, Winged Elf Illusionist/Rogue, Human Duelist, and Dwarven Paladin.

[Perrian]

Not being able to fit in most "dungeons" either.

You could argue that GM should adjust the size of giants in his world so such a player can fit most "dungeons" and buildings with some effort. There is nothing fun with a player been forced to leave the room every time something interesting happens.

In general I think the important thing to watch mechanic wise is interaction of hits and what attack table to be used. A creature that is large need more concussion hits to stay conscious than an normal sized character because of the extra concussion hits delivered to those creatures. Starting the character at a low level need careful thought about what critical status the character will have and what rules apply if he is ever to change size.

Size, buildings and dungeons are something at the top of his list... and especially with my current height of 19'9".   Currently that means alot of crawling through doors and slouching against a wall in a corner to be in a room with the party... god help me if a fight breaks out.. drawing most weapons would be completely out and I'd assuming I'd be at serious penalty to any OB/DB maneuvers.      GMs says I'll probably have as many concussions as the rest of the party combined if not more because of my size and my society background.

Critical and Attack tables(offensive and defense) were the first thing on my question list to the GM and he is trying to sort through that... any suggestions for him I'm sure he'd appreciate.   While there are rules for converting NPC races to PC, they really aren't designed with giants in mind.

[Perrian]

Problems

Finding properly sized equipment and clothing

Being able to fit inside most human-sized establishments

No mounts, so you have to walk everywhere

Your a frickin' Giant!! Unless Giants wander the world, visiting towns on a regular basis, expect almost everybody to be afraid of you (and likely trying to kill you)

You will need a lot of food, expect to have to eat about 5-10 times the amount a human does just to stay healthy

Not being able to fit in most "dungeons" either.

Equipment is a major concern especially as I wear stuff out.... I foresee spending most of my coin on food, clothing and shelter.
The GM was nice and extended the pace table up to my height... luckily I'm tall enough that my pace allows me to keep pace with the horses in party... but on a draw back I'm going to go through shoes pretty quick.

Villages, Towns and Cities definitely pose a quandry to me.... I can't make friends with everyone in a town quickly so unless I can first gain the rulers trust and then spend lengthy periods time interactive with the inhabitants I'm going to spend to be of limited help gathering information, getting supplies and other important tasks that happen in most towns...    I do hope that I can find a way to at least make friends with the guards while I'm stuck waiting on the team to reform up.

Are there new pads in Rolemaster?  I see a lot of knee walking in my future.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Size, buildings and dungeons are something at the top of his list... and especially with my current height of 19'9".   Currently that means alot of crawling through doors and slouching against a wall in a corner to be in a room with the party... god help me if a fight breaks out.. drawing most weapons would be completely out and I'd assuming I'd be at serious penalty to any OB/DB maneuvers.      GMs says I'll probably have as many concussions as the rest of the party combined if not more because of my size and my society background.

Critical and Attack tables(offensive and defense) were the first thing on my question list to the GM and he is trying to sort through that... any suggestions for him I'm sure he'd appreciate.   While there are rules for converting NPC races to PC, they really aren't designed with giants in mind.

Standard doors (now) are about 7' tall and 3' wide on average. Average ceilings in a building are about 8' high. (note: in the past, at least in many older houses that I have seen, doors often tended to be not quite as wide as modern ones).

A 6' man is about 2' wide if you measure him from side to side when standing still.

a 19'9" tall giant is quite going to be 4.5' to 6' wide from side to side, just guesstimating - using the same basic proportions.

What this means is that he will unlikely fit through many door, period. That would be the equivalent of a full grown man trying to fit through a door that is 2' tall and only 1' wide (think of a large doggie flap in a door).

And IF you got inside, you would have to most likely crawl everywhere, forget walking on your knees (a normal person's knees are about 18" above the ground, so your giant's knees would be about 5' off the ground (making him 14' tall when on his knees)).

Even if crawling, he would still be about 6'-7' tall, possibly taller in the front depending upon arm length. And still 5' or 6' in width....

Also, since you have said going into town is problematic, that means you have to trust the party to buy your supplies. The sheer volume for what you need will require a wagon, at the very least...

A little googling reveals that an average person needs about 5 lbs of food per day.  A giant of your size, would likely need the equivalent of about 20-30 lbs of food per day (and I think that I am guesstimating on the low side here, it may be as high as 50 lbs a day).

Youch!! No wonder Giants mostly just run around and steal from others, they are just trying to survive... hehe

[Perrian]

Size, buildings and dungeons are something at the top of his list... and especially with my current height of 19'9".   Currently that means alot of crawling through doors and slouching against a wall in a corner to be in a room with the party... god help me if a fight breaks out.. drawing most weapons would be completely out and I'd assuming I'd be at serious penalty to any OB/DB maneuvers.      GMs says I'll probably have as many concussions as the rest of the party combined if not more because of my size and my society background.

Critical and Attack tables(offensive and defense) were the first thing on my question list to the GM and he is trying to sort through that... any suggestions for him I'm sure he'd appreciate.   While there are rules for converting NPC races to PC, they really aren't designed with giants in mind.

Standard doors (now) are about 7' tall and 3' wide on average. Average ceilings in a building are about 8' high. (note: in the past, at least in many older houses that I have seen, doors often tended to be not quite as wide as modern ones).

A 6' man is about 2' wide if you measure him from side to side when standing still.

a 19'9" tall giant is quite going to be 4.5' to 6' wide from side to side, just guesstimating - using the same basic proportions.

What this means is that he will unlikely fit through many door, period. That would be the equivalent of a full grown man trying to fit through a door that is 2' tall and only 1' wide (think of a large doggie flap in a door).

And IF you got inside, you would have to most likely crawl everywhere, forget walking on your knees (a normal person's knees are about 18" above the ground, so your giant's knees would be about 5' off the ground (making him 14' tall when on his knees)).

Even if crawling, he would still be about 6'-7' tall, possibly taller in the front depending upon arm length. And still 5' or 6' in width....

Also, since you have said going into town is problematic, that means you have to trust the party to buy your supplies. The sheer volume for what you need will require a wagon, at the very least...

A little googling reveals that an average person needs about 5 lbs of food per day.  A giant of your size, would likely need the equivalent of about 20-30 lbs of food per day (and I think that I am guesstimating on the low side here, it may be as high as 50 lbs a day).

Youch!! No wonder Giants mostly just run around and steal from others, they are just trying to survive... hehe

Yah proportions are an issue... as a template I took all my own body measurements and then used a % increase so the GM would have them as reference.

Foraging and Hunting skills are going to be a priority for my DPs so I'm not sucking villages dry of complete harvests.

The GM is looking for thoughts on Crit tables to use... Normally NPC giants use the Slaying Crit table but that seems to be a bit simplistic for a Giant as player.   Do you have any suggestions on variations we might use?

[markc]

 IMO I would play a lay healer to help with crits and to provide you with the ability to shrink as you are a spell caster.
 But again those spells are going to wear off and you will have lots of trouble just getting around and staying around.
 Most of your $ is going to go for food and building you a house and may not be able to be met by the surrounding countryside. So I would look into food creation magic or magical sustenance to help you out.

MDC

[Perrian]

IMO I would play a lay healer to help with crits and to provide you with the ability to shrink as you are a spell caster.
 But again those spells are going to wear off and you will have lots of trouble just getting around and staying around.
 Most of your $ is going to go for food and building you a house and may not be able to be met by the surrounding countryside. So I would look into food creation magic or magical sustenance to help you out.

MDC

Really Good ideas Mark.... thank you!

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

The GM is looking for thoughts on Crit tables to use... Normally NPC giants use the Slaying Crit table but that seems to be a bit simplistic for a Giant as player.   Do you have any suggestions on variations we might use?

Do you mean to use against the Giant? or against others?

[Perrian]

The GM is looking for thoughts on Crit tables to use... Normally NPC giants use the Slaying Crit table but that seems to be a bit simplistic for a Giant as player.   Do you have any suggestions on variations we might use?

Do you mean to use against the Giant? or against others?

Against others... Generally creatures smaller than myself.     

Against the giant he is leaning toward going with the Regular Large Creature table since that table makes sense.

[markc]

The GM is looking for thoughts on Crit tables to use... Normally NPC giants use the Slaying Crit table but that seems to be a bit simplistic for a Giant as player.   Do you have any suggestions on variations we might use?

Do you mean to use against the Giant? or against others?

Against others... Generally creatures smaller than myself.     

Against the giant he is leaning toward going with the Regular Large Creature table since that table makes sense.

 Wow, I do not have a good answer for that except to lower your level vs the other players this will lower your crit chances. Also most of the time you may have to be in "shrunk" mode so it will not be as much as a problem. When you change to normal size IMO most people and creatures will simply run away. Or a least the smart ones will.

 Also note just because you change you size IMO you still have to eat the same as you would if you were your normal size. So the size reduction will help in going into buildings but I do not think your reduced size can carry enough food to feed you any length of time.
MDC

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Against others... Generally creatures smaller than myself.     

The standard for Rolemaster is to use a damage multiplier (for damage received from the attack tables), and to just use the crit tables as per normal.

For example, according to Creatures & Monsters, a Storm Giant does 5 x the normal amount of hit damage when making attacks.

[rdanhenry]

Note that larger animals have lower metabolic rates and eat less in proportion to their weight. So it won't be as bad as simple linear extrapolation from a human would make it look. (Although he'll still be eating and drinking large quantities.)