Author Topic: Long kynac: comparing rapier table to kynac table  (Read 3289 times)

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Offline turthalion

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Long kynac: comparing rapier table to kynac table
« on: January 22, 2010, 05:41:25 PM »
So I have both the Fantasy Weapons PDF and Arms Law (2003 edition).  I also have my 1995 Arms Law book for comparison's sake.

In the old days, Arms Law used to specify different criticals for different results and some criticals seemed more prevalent against different armor types, e.g. rapier would do mostly puncture at high rolls, but more slashes with lower rolls.

That seems gone now.  Sigh.

Anyway, long kynacs historically were rolled on the rapier table at +15.

In Arms Law 2003, the rapier does all puncture.

In the Fantasy Weapons PDF, the long kynac does all slashes.

If you use Arms Law 2003 and the rapier table for a kynac, let's say your attack roll is 127 (OB + roll).  Add +15 for rolling on the rapier table.  If your opponent has AT18, you'll do a 7E, and a puncture critical.

Now compare the same result for the Fantasy Weapons table.  Here, we'd look up the bare 127 roll.  Hmmm, 6C.  And a slash to boot.

Why is the long kynac table not as good as rapier+15 ?  We're running our first Shadow World campaign, and I really pushed the kynac+long kynac to a Duranaki player as being the racial weapons of choice.  He took them, and has been disappointed at his lacklustre results, when you factor in developing two-weapon fighting, two primary weapons at once, plus the off-hand, his OBs are considerably lower, and even when he rolls well, doesn't punch high on the chart.

I kept copious notes and went over last session's record of his rolls and in every case, he would have done far more damage rolling on the rapier table at +15.  Not to mention the fact that the puncture critical table is also generally more damaging, for the same level of result, than the slash table.

Any one else notice this?  What's the preferred / most-used table for long kynacs?  The rapier+15, or the long kynac table itself?

Ironically, the kynac table seems to be the rapier table with the -5 for AT20 through AT13 applied, so there's no issue there.

Comments welcome.

Offline markc

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Re: Long kynac: comparing rapier table to kynac table
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2010, 07:10:31 PM »
 I do not use Arms Law 2003 for the reason you talked about above. In AL 2003 you can pick your crit type and adjust your OB accordingly.

 I am just going to guess but I think they may have toned the weapons down a bit or used a new formula to generate the table.

 Depending on your campaign RMSS or RMC you may pick one over the other but it sounds like to me that you should use the rapier+15 as that simulates the weapon you remember and wish to have the player play to be effective.
 I would have him use the rapier chart for a game or two and keep track of the info and make a decision then.

Does that help?
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Offline turthalion

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Re: Long kynac: comparing rapier table to kynac table
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2010, 02:46:18 PM »
I do not use Arms Law 2003 for the reason you talked about above. In AL 2003 you can pick your crit type and adjust your OB accordingly.

I haven't read through AL2003 cover to cover, I bought it mainly to have an electronic copy of the tables, but I see the section you're talking about.


 Depending on your campaign RMSS or RMC you may pick one over the other but it sounds like to me that you should use the rapier+15 as that simulates the weapon you remember and wish to have the player play to be effective.
 I would have him use the rapier chart for a game or two and keep track of the info and make a decision then.


We're playing RMSS, so AL1995 is more in keeping with that vintage, so I think I will use that.

Your suggestion of keeping track is a good one.  I'm not one for gaming the system in favour of the party, but they're playing through a modified Grand Campaign with only 5 PCs, so the deck is stacked against them so to speak, and I've got to balance player frustration with the good of the game and the good of the party.  Nothing more frustrating than rolling all night and doing 2 or 3 points every time.

Thanks for the advice.