Topic: ST# 6301 HAALKITAINE clarification request

[dutch206]

In "Haalkitaine" on page 45, Prince Westley is listed as:

Westley Malvion Taniador
• His Royal Highness the Prince of Lethys,
Duke of Lethana

However, in the map accompanying this product, the Duchy of Lethana is not shown.  For now, I am making Lethana, "everything within a day's ride of Lethys", although this is technically a Riding and not a Duchy.

Also, since Westley is a prince, wouldn't that make him an Archduke (Like Ferdinand in the Real World)?

[DonMoody]

I am unsure if Haalkitaine uses those terms in the same manner.

For example, a "Duchy" was usually a a sub-section of a kingdom (albeit often with a fair amount of 'independance') while a "Grand Duchy" was usually independant and sovereign; i.e. not part of a larger kingdom.
But even those 'definitions' were not hard and fast.

For example, [currently] the Duchy of Normandy (an inherited title) consists only of the Channel Islands (a mere fraction the size of the Duchy at its height).

Also, a 'riding' was (generally) a third of a county (compare to farthing - which in some uses meant a fourth of a county) but even that was not a 'hard and fast' rule.
And, FWIW, the [Earth] origin of this use of the word riding is not based upon "everything within a day's ride" [on horseback].

I'll have to check my copy of Haalkitaine when I get home.

DonMoody

[dutch206]

As long as I am playing "Trivial Pursuit: Kulthea Edition", I have more questions.

Haalkitaine says that Italana had four daughters and one son.  The son became the current emperor.  The eldest daughter (Morgana) was driven insane and never married.  The youngest daughter (Kora) is 75 and shows no signs of wanting to marry.  One of the other daughters must have been the mother of Frelik of Mignon, and thus didn't survive the civil war.

Who is the fourth daughter?

[munchy]

As long as I am playing "Trivial Pursuit: Kulthea Edition", I have more questions.

  Have a laugh point for that one! Very nice!

[dutch206]

   Thank you.  One does what one can.

[dutch206]

I am unsure if Haalkitaine uses those terms in the same manner.

For example, a "Duchy" was usually a a sub-section of a kingdom (albeit often with a fair amount of 'independance') while a "Grand Duchy" was usually independant and sovereign; i.e. not part of a larger kingdom.
But even those 'definitions' were not hard and fast.

DonMoody

I choose to disagree.  The region you describe would be a County Palatine, not a Grand Duchy.  In the Austrian Empire, IIRC, Ferdinand was named Archduke because of his close relation to the Emperor.  That was my understanding of the difference between a Duke and an Archduke.

[metallion]

1) Rhakhaan is based on the UK Peerage, Archduke is not a title in that hierarchy.  I don't know if UK history has a situation in its history to parallell the relocation of the capital to Lethys, in commemoration of which it is ruled by a Prince.

2)

"One of the other daughters must have been the mother of Frelik of Mignon, and thus didn't survive the civil war."

  This is not correct -- this would make Frelik Jerrin's nephew rather than his cousin.  Assuming that they are first cousins -- and there is no reason to do so -- the sibling would have either been Italana's or Sir Edwin Wineheart's, or one of their ancestors if they are more distant cousins.

[egdcltd]

1) Rhakhaan is based on the UK Peerage, Archduke is not a title in that hierarchy.  I don't know if UK history has a situation in its history to parallell the relocation of the capital to Lethys, in commemoration of which it is ruled by a Prince.

No, the UK capital has never been moved. It should be noted that a lot of current Dukes in the UK are actually members of the royal family. (currently Edinburgh, Cornwall, York, Gloucester and Kent, although there were more in the past)

[dutch206]

@ Metallion:  You are correct.  (My bad.)  That leaves two daughters unaccounted for.  See what you've done? 

@egdcltd:  This is kind of what I was getting at.  I am distantly related to the 24th Earl of Arundel.  While doing the family history, I soon realized that once you are related to one noble, you are related to all of them.  Most of the major households in Rhakhaan have to be related to one degree or another.

[egdcltd]

Yes, the dukes I mentioned are all immediate members of the royal family. The other dukes, and lower ranking nobles, will usually be related as well. The exception being the recently ennobled.

[metallion]

This is kind of what I was getting at.  I am distantly related to the 24th Earl of Arundel.  While doing the family history, I soon realized that once you are related to one noble, you are related to all of them.  Most of the major households in Rhakhaan have to be related to one degree or another.

This is not by accident -- for a very long time, it was believed that only those of noble blood were worthy to marry others of noble blood.  It's a belief that cost the noble houses dearly thanks to hemophelia and any number of other consequences of inbreeding.  As class-conscious as Rhakhaan is, that's probably still in full force there.  (In my campaign, ths explains a rather unfortunate facial feature known as the Faslurin Nose, which has saves kept Prince Ajkar from getting shot more than once.)

[dutch206]

All of this is interesting, but I still need an answer to my OP:  Where is the Duchy of Lethana and how big is it?

[Guillaume]

once you are related to one noble, you are related to all of them. 

That's especially true in Europe, where it was quite common for the nobles of a country to marry with nobles from other countries... That's also how not a few crowns changed from one noble line to another one...

If you start digging in it you will find that the Queen of England ( and the rest )  has blood ties with the nobles from Germany. And that the King of Spain is among the list of the nobles that could ask for the eventual Crown of France.

[fac]

All of this is interesting, but I still need an answer to my OP:  Where is the Duchy of Lethana and how big is it?

Yo should wait until Terry states something about this matter, but probably Lethana was the old duchy and when Lethys was elevated to a princedom the duchy remained the same. The root is the same "Leth-"

In some parts of Europe an Archduke (or the byzantium Megadux) was of a highest ranking than a prince.