Topic: Shadow World Wiki?

[egdcltd]

Well, since there's one for Cyradon, what about one for Kulthea? Would this be wanted, or possible?

[Guillaume]

we already have the Nomikos Library. 

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

ICE has taken notice of this thread/request and we will let you know when a decision has been made.

[egdcltd]

we already have the Nomikos Library. 

True, although it is mostly timeline based. The Cyradon wiki looks a bit different, plus users can contribute.

ICE has taken notice of this thread/request and we will let you know when a decision has been made.

Thanks.

[vroomfogle]

My own views on this is that I really would not like to see a wiki for the following reasons:

1 – I don’t think a wiki is really all that suitable for most fantasy worlds.  It may be suitable for something like Middle-Earth where there is an incredible amount of detail about everything and everyone.   However, in a world where the majority of entries would consist of a paragraph or less a wiki just does not seem like a great way to present that information.   I don't think it's an efficient method at all.

2 – A wiki means that you need to have motivated users that will actually spend the time to enter things in.  Without someone being a main driving force behind these things they tend to go nowhere.   A year ago I enlisted help to enter in the new entries from Xa-ar to the Nomikos library website.   I got a couple volunteers and to date they have not entered in anything.   The reality is that few people are actually willing to put in the work for such a project.

3 – The last reason is more personal.  The SW Player Guides I'm working on now are an attempt to give a solid organizational and consistent framework to all the existing SW material.   The material is scattered around a lot of books and sometimes presented differently (i.e. cultures).   I’m putting in a lot of work to present a cohesive product where regions and cultures are presented in a consistent manner.   Furthermore, the decision on what is player info and what is GM info can be a fine line sometimes.   If a wiki consisted of all GM & player info then I oppose it on those grounds alone.  All that info should not be freely available to everyone.   If it were player only then the decision on what to include would lie with whoever was adding material leading to something more arbitrary.   I feel that a wiki would completely sideline my work on the Player Guides and I would see little reason to continue on such a project.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Well, since there's one for Cyradon, what about one for Kulthea? Would this be wanted, or possible?

ICE will not be moving forward with a Shadow World Wiki at this point in time.

[Moriarty]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_World

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_World

That is not official, and it would not be allowed to contain more than what would be allowed via the Fair Use acts of copyright law.

[vroomfogle]

That is a perfect example of why a wiki is a bad idea.    While there is really not a whole lot of info there, the history that is there is really not for players.  I might have to rewrite it as a basic overview based on the World Player Guide at some point.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

That is a perfect example of why a wiki is a bad idea.    While there is really not a whole lot of info there, the history that is there is really not for players.  I might have to rewrite it as a basic overview based on the World Player Guide at some point.

Personally, I don't think a wiki is a bad idea in general. But, then again, I am not the one who makes such decisions. 

Now, I do agree that a fully open, unmoderated wiki would not work and would be unfeasible, and would cause problems. One that was more controlled and worked towards the goal of being both a useful tool and sales aid, would and could work very well.

An official Shadow World wiki would require, at the very least, a small team to maintain and post the official material (which would not be allowed to be edited by the general public), and a way to keep official separate from fan-generated content (like how the Cyradon wiki keeps official separate from unofficial).

An official wiki could also be used to drive sales. By having the official material in smaller chunks, spread over many pages, that makes it a great short-term reference tool, and also makes it a perfect vehicle for driving sales of products that consolidate this information in more manageable formats (such as the Player Guides being produced for GCP) through the placing of links to those products in the official articles.

As for issues between GM and player information, you could easily create GM and player sections. This is no different than doing GM and Player sections in a book. There is nothing that keeps the player from peeking at the GM info in the book. 

At least, that is my opinion on this idea. 

[Moriarty]

The wiki was posted here in this forum a while back, I forgot by whom, and I can't seem to find the thread now. While I agree that there is not much content to be found now (and the limited content that is there is mostly about Emer) it is a wiki, as requested

Personally I think it is a great idea that could be very useful for Shadow World fans all around the world - even if the wiki is limited in scope and hampered by copyrights issues (maybe it could only be used for canon material, or maybe the opposite? can't say that I know or care, honestly).

[Thom @ ICE]

Personally, I see the creation of a wiki, whether public or moderated as a loss of potential sales revenue for ICE and as a potential invitation for IP issues.  The time and energy that went into those products should not be put out there for free.  If there is a desire to create some free marketing materials to promote the line, then perhaps that can be created as a product and made available as a free download.  Putting the copyrighted material that is already in existence and available for sale out on the internet as free is not the way to go.

Of course that is just my opinion...

[egdcltd]

Seems that the idea of a wiki has some pretty strong opinions. More than I expected anyway.

The wiki was posted here in this forum a while back, I forgot by whom, and I can't seem to find the thread now. While I agree that there is not much content to be found now (and the limited content that is there is mostly about Emer) it is a wiki, as requested

I did know of that one (if you check the history for the main page, you'll see I've edited it  )

2 – A wiki means that you need to have motivated users that will actually spend the time to enter things in.  Without someone being a main driving force behind these things they tend to go nowhere.   A year ago I enlisted help to enter in the new entries from Xa-ar to the Nomikos library website.   I got a couple volunteers and to date they have not entered in anything.   The reality is that few people are actually willing to put in the work for such a project.

I know that from previous experience. A wiki was set up for a program, but only a couple of people really did any work on it. What still needs doing for the Xa'ar timeline?

That is a perfect example of why a wiki is a bad idea.    While there is really not a whole lot of info there, the history that is there is really not for players.  I might have to rewrite it as a basic overview based on the World Player Guide at some point.

Yes, always a worry with an open source of information in that players can access and misuse it.

Personally, I see the creation of a wiki, whether public or moderated as a loss of potential sales revenue for ICE and as a potential invitation for IP issues.  The time and energy that went into those products should not be put out there for free.

True, that is always a problem, and was actually something I was unsure on.

[Wōdwulf Seaxaning]

My own views on this is that I really would not like to see a wiki for the following reasons:

1 – I don’t think a wiki is really all that suitable for most fantasy worlds.  It may be suitable for something like Middle-Earth where there is an incredible amount of detail about everything and everyone.   However, in a world where the majority of entries would consist of a paragraph or less a wiki just does not seem like a great way to present that information.   I don't think it's an efficient method at all.

2 – A wiki means that you need to have motivated users that will actually spend the time to enter things in.  Without someone being a main driving force behind these things they tend to go nowhere.   A year ago I enlisted help to enter in the new entries from Xa-ar to the Nomikos library website.   I got a couple volunteers and to date they have not entered in anything.   The reality is that few people are actually willing to put in the work for such a project.

3 – The last reason is more personal.  The SW Player Guides I'm working on now are an attempt to give a solid organizational and consistent framework to all the existing SW material.   The material is scattered around a lot of books and sometimes presented differently (i.e. cultures).   I’m putting in a lot of work to present a cohesive product where regions and cultures are presented in a consistent manner.   Furthermore, the decision on what is player info and what is GM info can be a fine line sometimes.   If a wiki consisted of all GM & player info then I oppose it on those grounds alone.  All that info should not be freely available to everyone.   If it were player only then the decision on what to include would lie with whoever was adding material leading to something more arbitrary.   I feel that a wiki would completely sideline my work on the Player Guides and I would see little reason to continue on such a project.

The bold section is my main opposition to a wiki..I want his SW Player's Guide & bad!!!

[craggles]

I too would welcome a Shadow World players guide and if a Wiki is going to harm it in any way, then it’s a definite no no in my book!

(plus the issue of giving players knowledge that only the GM should have is another no no).

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Hmmm.. I thought I posted ICE's answer once before...


The Official Answer is no, ICE will not be doing a wiki at this time.

[Wōdwulf Seaxaning]

Just making sure it doesn't raise it's evil lil' head again

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Just making sure it doesn't raise it's evil lil' head again

Oh, it might.... someday... 

It is ICE's opinion that a wiki could, if done correctly, could be a very useful tool and sales aid to products.

However, ICE currently doesn't have the manpower resources to manage it (it would likely require a small team to manage it), and there is nobody else (whom ICE would be willing to allow to manage it) willing to do so.