Author Topic: "Rolemaster Classic: Arms Law" Options Poll  (Read 8797 times)

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Offline Marc R

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"Rolemaster Classic: Arms Law" Options Poll
« on: January 30, 2007, 10:32:30 AM »
Getting closer to release on RMC Arms Law, so time for the options poll.

This poll works the same as the "RMC: ChL Options Poll". It's a sneak peek of the options in the new book, you can vote for any or all of them, and you can change your vote at any time.

Which Options do you like, which ones would you use? Why? (Or why not?)

Option 1: Bow and arrow bonuses are cumulative.

Option 2: Bow and arrow bonuses are the lower of the two.

Option 3: Using your shield as a weapon.

Option 4: Allowing the spear to be used as it was in history.

Option 5: Better be big and strong if you want to try this one.

Option 6: Bash 'em, bite 'em, claw 'em! throw your tentacles around like you mean it. . .sting the bartender for looking at you funny. . .well, for most races, stick to bash, bite, grapple and stomp.

Option 7: Martial arts ala Greco-Roman, rather than the Judo of sweeps.

Option 8: Break the round down into 4 smaller action steps.

Option 9: You can't use your parry against more than one foe in RM. . . or can you?

Option 10: The pause that refreshes, do nothing but prepare, and go first next round. (Hopefully)

Option 11: Well, who wants to roll every round for every combatant? Well, actually, this option is for those who don't.

Option 12: Makes attack rolls open ended Low as well as open ended high. (Making it more likely to miss with a high OB without actually fumbling.)

Option 13: Break 150, start over at 1 again. (With a few provisos)

Option 14: The majority of references made it NOT stun, but there were a few that did, so we offer it as an option.

Option 15: Accumulated Stun can Knock you out before you reach 0 hits.

Option 16: How bad is it to get "thrown 20' left?", buy RMC AL and find out.  :o
« Last Edit: January 31, 2007, 12:24:18 PM by LordMiller »
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Offline vroomfogle

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Re: "Rolemaster Classic: Arms Law" Options Poll
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2007, 10:41:59 AM »
I voted for nearly all options except for Generous Missile bonuses (as it's mutually exclusive with the Conservative Bonus option), Smaller steps for the tactical round (the two 50% phases works very nicely as is), and single initiative combat.

Offline Cormac Doyle

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Re: "Rolemaster Classic: Arms Law" Options Poll
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2007, 10:46:23 AM »
On this one I'm an "Options Whore" :)

Quote
Option 1: Bow and arrow bonuses are cumulative.
Yep

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Option 2: Bow and arrow bonuses are the lower of the two.


Nope (Obviously can't do both #1 & #2)

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Option 3: Using your shield as a weapon.
Yep
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Option 4: Allowing the spear to be used as it was in history.
Definitely
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Option 5: Better be big and strong if you want to try this one.
For Giants, Titans and the like ...
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Option 6: Bash 'em, bite 'em, claw 'em! throw your tentacles around like you mean it. . .sting the bartender for looking at you funny. . .well, for most races, stick to bash, bite, grapple and stomp.

Oh Yeah, Baby :)

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Option 7: Martial arts ala Greco-Roman, rather than the Judo of sweeps.
Yep
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Option 8: Break the round down into 4 smaller action steps.
Sometimes
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Option 9: You can's use your parry against more than one foe in RM. . . or can you?
Yep
Quote

Option 10: The pause that refreshes, do nothing but prepare, and go first next round. (Hopefully)
Yep
Quote

Option 11: Well, who wants to roll every round for every combatant? Well, actually, this option is for those who don't.
Yep
Quote

Option 12: Makes attack rolls open ended Low as well as high. (Making it more likely to miss with a high OB without actually fumbling.)
Yep
Quote

Option 13: Break 150, start over at 1 again. (With a few provisos)
Yep
Quote

Option 14: The majority of references made it NOT stun, but there were a few that did, so we offer it as an option.
Yep
Quote

Option 15: Accumulated Stun can Knock you out before you reach 0 hits.
Yep, Yep, Yep, Yep. OH GOD Yep
Quote

Option 16: How bad is it to get "thrown 20' left?", buy RMC AL and find out.  :o

BAD ... Yep

Offline Marc R

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Re: "Rolemaster Classic: Arms Law" Options Poll
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2007, 11:25:59 AM »
Option 1: Bow and arrow bonuses are cumulative.
Option 2: Bow and arrow bonuses are the lower of the two.
I'm fine with the "Add them together and average them" of core.
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Option 3: Using your shield as a weapon.
I'm all for using pencils, dinner plates, siverware and rocks as weapons. . .shields are definitely so.
Quote
Option 4: Allowing the spear to be used as it was in history.
Finally, back to being able to use spear and shield. . . .boo-yah!
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Option 5: Better be big and strong if you want to try this one.
giants, ogres, trolls. . . .or people under the effects of magic or anything else that give them silly high STR bonuses. (But no 5 pound super pixies with 15 pound axes. size does matter)
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Option 6: Bash 'em, bite 'em, claw 'em! throw your tentacles around like you mean it. . .sting the bartender for looking at you funny. . .well, for most races, stick to bash, bite, grapple and stomp.
yes, Yes, YES! I'll go foam privately, but YES.
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Option 7: Martial arts ala Greco-Roman, rather than the Judo of sweeps.
Be interesting to see this in play. . . .have fun when two monks jump you, and one holds you while the other one strikes the "snot" out of you.
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Option 8: Break the round down into 4 smaller action steps.
I see some real potential difference in how the rounds will resolve in the 2nd step.
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Option 9: You can's use your parry against more than one foe in RM. . . or can you?
Yes for me. . .not easy, but yes.
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Option 10: The pause that refreshes, do nothing but prepare, and go first next round. (Hopefully)
no for now, but mostly "No until I can use it in play enough to give an honest and educated opinion." not "No I hate it".
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Option 11: Well, who wants to roll every round for every combatant? Well, actually, this option is for those who don't.
perhaps. I voted no, but it may be used in a battle royale with loads of combatants where life makes tracking it all hard as it is.
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Option 12: Makes attack rolls open ended Low as well as high. (Making it more likely to miss with a high OB without actually fumbling.)
Yes. If I hadn't written this option myself, I'd swear it was always the core.
Quote
Option 13: Break 150, start over at 1 again. (With a few provisos)
Yes. . . .any the key to balance is in the provisos.
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Option 14: The majority of references made it NOT stun, but there were a few that did, so we offer it as an option.
No, because I'd like to think Constructs, Undead and Demons can occasionally be knocked off balance. (All three are immune to stun)
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Option 15: Accumulated Stun can Knock you out before you reach 0 hits.
Yes. . .anyone who's watched boxing, knows it's true.
Quote
Option 16: How bad is it to get "thrown 20' left?", buy RMC AL and find out.  :o
A "It depends what's 10' to your left" heheh. . .Yes!
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Offline eiseg

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Re: "Rolemaster Classic: Arms Law" Options Poll
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2007, 01:35:38 PM »
I think im with most people i like the options.

I voted for adding bow + arrow together just to make it simple.

Offline munchy

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Re: "Rolemaster Classic: Arms Law" Options Poll
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2007, 02:10:58 PM »
I voted for a couple of them but not all. Won't list them here as it can be seen in the vote ...
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Offline smug

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Re: "Rolemaster Classic: Arms Law" Options Poll
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2007, 06:00:17 PM »
I like single-roll initiative (one roll per person per combat) only because it then allows me to have some characters spend less clock ticks before their next one, based on their speed. I guess what I really don't like is a 'round' structure at all (which clearly doesn't represent what actually happens); I'm not averse to some fresh random element of the initiative sort over the course of a combat but I don't like it based on rounds, which are just a nasty (and common) hack to represent what really happens.

Offline Ecthelion

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Re: "Rolemaster Classic: Arms Law" Options Poll
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2007, 01:18:14 AM »
Hmm, I thought option 12 and 15 were core rules anyway.

Offline Marc R

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Re: "Rolemaster Classic: Arms Law" Options Poll
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2007, 12:18:37 PM »
Funny, me too, but they were options.
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Sorloc

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Re: "Rolemaster Classic: Arms Law" Options Poll
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2007, 10:32:06 AM »
Me three.

==================
Options 1 & 2:

I don't like either of the missile options, as they aren't really RM.  RM favors diminishing returns, and so do I.

Highest Bonus: 100%
Next Highest: 75%
Next Highest: 50%
Next Highest: 25%
Next Highest: 12?%
Subsequent: halve percentage each time.

So,
A well crafted (+10) longbow made of Mythnak wood (+25) and enchanted to +20 firing a well crafted arrow (+10) with curved fletchings (+5), and a laen head (+25)
would have a total bonus of
Not +95,
Not +25,
But
+25 x 100% = +25
+25 x 75% = +18.75
+20 x 50% = +10
+10 x 25% = +2.5
+10 x 12?% = +1.25
+5 x 6?% = +0.34
----------------------------
 . . . . . . . . . . +58

This means that every add to the weapon gives SOME value, but eliminates the potential for excessive stacked bonuses.  OK, there's some math, but you'll know the total bonuses ahead of time, so you won't be figuring in combat.
In the case of missile weapons where you might use missiles of different bonuses in one combat, I'd figure the bonuses for the bow ahead of time and the individual missiles ahead of time, and then average the bonuses when the attack comes*.  Or, the player can recalc during someone else's turn.

We use this method for armor DB mods and weapon OB mods, and it works well.

*In the example above, this would result in +45 longbow being averaged with +35 arrow for +40 total.
========================

Options 3, 4, 5, 6 & 7:

Anything is a weapon, and should be treated as such.

All items should be rated with the minimum ST and AG mod needed to use the weapon without penalty (important!  it's not disallowed, you just gain a penalty, which may make it improbable, but not impossible - that's RM).  The mods would be based upon 1h and 2h use- FOR EVERY WEAPON.  The system needs to stop making assumptions about how it is to be used.
In current RM, a 3' tall halfling can use a 5?' bastard sword 1h with only a -10 penalty, the same penalty a 9' Half Troll gets.  Ummm, hello? 

Using min ST/AG for 1h /2h use means that a halfling might not be able to use a battleaxe 1h, but could use it 2h.  Similarly, the Half Troll might not be restricted to using a War Mattock 2h, but can use it 1h with shield (!)

---------------
Obviously, Natural weapon attacks are a skill.  Ever miss with a punch?  I remember doing that a few times...  Just as obvious is the effect of advanced techniques for natural weapons (commonly referred to as Martial Arts, but also including boxing, wrestling, savate, etc.)  Again, assumptions are dangerous - not all beings have the same natural weapons, and provision must be made for improved natural weapons like claws, fangs, barbed tails, etc.
It is important to define the point at which natural weapon attacks switch from mere scuffling / brawling to deadly combat. 
This could be done by modifying the existing natural weapon attack charts and instituting not only a damage threshold for size, but a crit threshold as well for skill.
--------
Cinematic Martial Arts should be an option, not core.
Oh, yes, I love cinematic Martial Arts, but realistic Martial Arts should be the norm.
===========================

Option 10 & 11:

I would like to see a 'roundless' combat system, using ONLY action times.  I yearn to hear someone say, "What?  he's attacking ME?  Ack - I abort to parry."  The main difficulty I see with this is holding instant spells to the 1/10 seconds rule.

===========================

Option 13:

We used this for all but missile weapons - a missile weapon exceeding 150 was assumed to have 'blown through' the target and applies the remainder of its OB against any new target on the other side.

===========================

Option 16:

Watch out, you're opening the door to Intentional Knockback attacks...
If only size was a stat, you could do knockback so easy...
More likely, it will be tied to OB and maybe the attacker's weight (irregardless of their body type) and not the defender's weight, so a War Troll will get knocked back the same as a halfling or pixie...  :-\

If this option is handled well, I'd like it.  If it's half-a**ed like some of the other options, then I'd rather not see it.  This one in particular has no easy fix, and would require a good bit of work and playtesting to accomplish.

Offline Marc R

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Re: "Rolemaster Classic: Arms Law" Options Poll
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2007, 10:42:44 AM »
Ahh, your references to 7, 10 and 16 urge me to break my vow. . . .find someone who's purchased the book to start those conversations. . . .(There's one review up already, and so, someone to ask.)
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Offline shnar

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Re: "Rolemaster Classic: Arms Law" Options Poll
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2007, 06:51:11 PM »
I actually like RMC1's way of "wrapping" the attack tables. There was a formula that gave you how many HP and extra Crits you got if you broke 150. That way there wasn't this wierd gap between 150 and 200+ of no extra damage...

-shnar

Offline Marc R

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Re: "Rolemaster Classic: Arms Law" Options Poll
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2007, 03:47:35 PM »
that is a good point, never really considered that angle. . . though, the "weird gap" does denefit good armor/weapon combinations over bad ones in the size of the 0s gap. . .it also reduces the casual use of OBs over 150 to inflict multi crits.
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Offline shnar

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Re: "Rolemaster Classic: Arms Law" Options Poll
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2007, 11:54:44 AM »
We rarely used it though unless it was a *really* good over 150 (usually resulting from a couple OpenEnded roles). When the result was basically over 200, then we'd really want to know how badly we killed the opponent, so this tactic was rarely over abused.

-shnar

Offline Marc R

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Re: "Rolemaster Classic: Arms Law" Options Poll
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2007, 02:14:40 PM »
Got a bunch of votes in now. . . .I never would have predicted that "Shield Bash" would be the single most popular option in the book.
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Offline shnar

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Re: "Rolemaster Classic: Arms Law" Options Poll
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2007, 11:07:58 AM »
Especially over Generous Missile Bonus (I wonder if a lot of people overlooked it assuming it was a normal rule, I mean if the bow AND arrow are both good, then you should get both bonuses).

I voted for ShieldBash since it makes sense to me, but honestly I can't think of one gaming session where it's been used :/

-shnar

Offline Balhirath

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Re: "Rolemaster Classic: Arms Law" Options Poll
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2007, 03:33:23 PM »
Especially over Generous Missile Bonus (I wonder if a lot of people overlooked it assuming it was a normal rule, I mean if the bow AND arrow are both good, then you should get both bonuses).

I voted for ShieldBash since it makes sense to me, but honestly I can't think of one gaming session where it's been used :/

-shnar

Exactly my thoughts.. though I can think of a few times where shield-bash have been used :)
For attacks over 150 I divide the amount over by five and that is extra hits given. I have used the table/formula from Comp 1, but dropped it to speed up combat.

hmmm I think that most people here use what they think makes sense.
It makes sense that you can use a shield to bash an opponent. It also makes sense that if you have a very good arrow and fire it from a very good bow, you get a very, very good shot. The downside of this logic (for the player) is that you might have a +20 bow, but if your arrow aint magical, you are NOT going to hurt anything that cant be hurt with non-magical weapons.
Anything that have been done in history usually make sense (As with spears in one hand) because people can relate to it. :) And if a rule doesn't make sense, people will make up houserules, so that it WILL make sense.

For example, I have a houserule, that Powerwords, Words of Power and Commands does NOT need handgestures, because it doesn't make sense that you have to use your hands when saying something. Even the French can do that and they are famous for using their hands when talking  ;D

I'm new here, but have played RM2 on and off for 20 years. :)

Offline Michael Petrea

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Re: "Rolemaster Classic: Arms Law" Options Poll
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2007, 08:45:03 AM »
I haven't purchased the PDFs yet and I am still waiting on my LE editions (*cough*) so. . .

Do the RMC books have a checklist page for the options included?  Something like what is listed in this post  with a check box next to them.  I was just thinking that it would be nice to be able to hand out a list to the players with the options for the campaign checked.

Offline Marc R

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Re: "Rolemaster Classic: Arms Law" Options Poll
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2007, 08:48:37 AM »
You could copy/print out the "Index of optional rules" for each book and mark it up.
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Offline shnar

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Re: "Rolemaster Classic: Arms Law" Options Poll
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2007, 10:43:39 AM »
The RM2 Companions had this, I think in RMCIV is where the first one was printed?

-shnar