Official ICE Forums
Systems & Settings => Rolemaster => Topic started by: thiha on February 26, 2008, 09:52:48 AM
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I have a dream that one day this Rolemaster will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident; that all Rolemasters are created equal, and able to be consolidated into one Rolemaster someday."
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I LOVE the idea, but you get a laugh point any way ;)
lynn
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More Rolemasters = More Chaos
More Chaos = Arioch Happy ;D
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I think that the different versions appeal to different people for different reasons. But a new edition is needed sooner than later. Even if it loses some people it will bring in badly needed new blood.
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(http://www.thealmightyguru.com/Reviews/Highlander/Images/Highlander-OnlyOne.jpg)
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And by "equal", you mean "RM2 is best and RMSS/FRP was a mistake"?
That's how I read it.
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- Lynn:
Thanks! My first laugh point!
-Smug:
Actually, I love both.
I mean, "neither of them is a mistake."
Still, Rolemaster fans seem to be divided into two Rolemaster lines now, even though the two lines (RM2/RMC/RMX and RMSS/FRP) have there core mechanics in common (I admit there are tons of differences among them in detail, though).
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Yes, there are differences.
And I know that I have said this before, but one of the main reasons for RMC is to recapture the fan-base that the revision from RM2 to RMSS lost the old ICE.
Once we have recaptured that lost fan-base, or as much of it as possible, then ICE can turn its thoughts towards a new revision, one that does try to unify both RMC and RMFRP fan-bases. One of the only ways to accomplish this is going to be through a tiered skill system (example: Tier 1 == 30 skills, 35 DPs/lvl; Teir 2 == 60 skills, 70 DPs/lvl; Tier 3 == 120 skills, 140 DPs/lvl -- or something to this effect).
The way that I figure it, this is going to be the only way to even come close to satisfying both fan-bases.
Most of the rest of the system is pretty much the same in both cases.
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Rest assured, the next RM product I KNOW I will buy is the forth coming revision. I might get the new combat options book, I might get a pdf here or there, or I might not, but I will jump on the 4th edition. Much quicker than it took me to change from 2nd to 3rd (rmss).
lynn
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Now, I?m thinking the ?RMC/RMFRP Hybrids? topic and the ?Poll: Which versions of Rolemaster do you play?? have the same consciousness at the basis, that is to say the fact that either of the Rolemasters seems to have already achieved a significant number of fans that cannot be ignored when thinking future evolution (though we fans cannot refer to the sales amount ;D), and at the same time, they are actually the same system at the core (see, they can be used hybridly ;)).
I'm in a mood to call for fans' union from both RM2/Classic and RMSS/FRP (either of them is current edition!), as we (if I can say "we" to represent the collective of such fans) love Rolemaster, and don't want to bash either of them.
If we forget to unite, then we?ll be just divided in vain, in a mess, and any further chance of good/constructive ideas will be uprooted. It?s ?mottainai? (i.e. wasting resources in an unfavorable way).
Let?s continue to open up friendly opinions to share, still abiding by the rules of conduct.
Anyway, IMHO, for we fans, the key topic is ?RMC/RMFRP Hybrids?. We can shape temporal relatively consolidated use of Rolemasters, if we so hope, waiting the official upcoming of a new edition (and possibly can reflect some amount of fans? ideas to it in that way).
At least, if we fans stop thinking, then we lose the fortunate chance to know the current sub-official ideas on future Rolemaster such as "Tiered Skill" system mentioned in the prior post ;D).
Thanks
(Sigh, if I were a native English speaker?)
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thila,
Your thoughts on uniting the RM2/RMC/RMX and RMSS/FRP factions is wonderful, except that quite a few love their version of RM and often fight to keep it that way.
But I think you wish will come true as from what I understand some future RMC products will have rules to be used with RMSS/FRP. I also think there was a call a while back to write adventures and they might be for one system or another but might have a conversion document so it can be used with the other system.
I have not looked at the poles in a while but the numbers were close last time I looked but RM2/C was in the lead. Which IMO is to be expected as most everyone likes a reformatted and updated versions of the game. I heard, the group ICE pulled together did a great job and cleared up many things that had been found over the years as well as added some new rules to speed play.
I am in the RMSS group, for various reasons and also hope that both sides can get along and make the game better for everyone.
MDC
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Ultimately I want to see one version of RM, the 4th edition, with as much support for the old editions as demand allows, but as a secondary focus to be sure.
lynn
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Tim,
Why don't you call issue a news release saying that "there are no plans for a new edition of Rolemaster", then turn around and do it anyway? Sorry, but whenever I hear the words "Fourth Edition", I think of WotC. (Bitter? ME? Never. >:( )
I have a feeling that this is a rules overhaul that is badly needed. To quote Rodney King:
"Can't we all just get along?"
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A tiered system isn't a bad idea. The new Twilight 2013 game is going to take that approuch. Tier 1 and 2 will be in the core book while tier 3 will be in advance options books. The appeal is people can pick and choose each area of the game to play at tier 1( the most simple level) to tier 3( most complex). So you could have combat at tier 3 but healing at tier 1 if thats your thing.
I think a new version of RM done this way would be the biggest way to bring all the people together from the varies editions of RM. Of course a few will always stay lost but hopefully more will be gained.
Anyways still looking forward to the revised edition whenever it happens.
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I think a tiered system will wind up being far more of a tangled mess and more divisive than RMSS is at present. There, I've said it. I think a clean, integrated system that tidies up some overly convoluted bits would be far better recieved in the long run. It would sell more books as well. Why? Because tier three products will always sell a third as many books as tier one products.
I don't think a core book with expansions is the right path either. Rather I'd like an inexpensive introductory book like RMX paired with a compendium set like RMSS. If set up right you could still mix and match options pretty freely while maintaining some system consistancy across games.
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(Sigh, if I were a native English speakerÂ…)
You do much better than some native speakers. ;)
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(Sigh, if I were a native English speakerÂ…)
Write it in your native tongue and have Babelfish translate it for you:
http://babelfish.altavista.com/
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IMO, a tiered system could be good or very bad depending on how it played out. I do not think a tiered book system [book 1=teir 1. etc] would be good for a game and spawn essentially many house rule type games ICE saw in the RM2 comp. days. Because after a while the new optional rules can entangle one another and break the system. Could you imagine a new book of 160 pages filled with new house rules for HARP or any RM to add to your game? It would be crazy. Also remember what AD&D did for D&D in the past.
Now I like comlex games and am good at smothing out complexaties for new comers. I actually liked T3's construction rules for weapons, ships, vesseles etc. Yes they were complex but to me the complexity was worth it. In fact I am thinking about designing all my weapons from a cmapaign with the rules and using RM Firearms and Blaster Law for the charts. I do not know but I think the firearm creation rules are very realistic if not taken directly from firearm designers. Then they simply make an educated guess as to what will happen in the future to produce future type weapons. Now could they make the design system more friendly? Yes. Would that sell more books? Yes. But I agree it is not for every one.
MDC
BTW, English is my first and sometimes my second language.
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T3 as in Traveller the New Era?
Also, I only speak English and Bad English, well okay I only speak Bad English but I can read and write both.
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DJ,
Yes it has to be since I cannot find the PDF on my computer. I will have to check my old laptop to see if it is thier. If not I will do another download of it from drivethroughrpg.com .
MDC
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Bad English...liked the band.
lynn
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I cribed the line from Corbin Dallas (Bruce Willis) in The Fifth Element.
I'll freely admit that my experiences as a Traveller fan strongly colour my feelings on new editions. Whatever else there is, RMSS isn't nearly as huge a leap as TNE was. I think TNE is the prime example of several game killing mistakes designers make.
The omnibus corebook without a less scary entry point. The complete rules re-write.
The rushed and badly edited products.
The massive setting destroying cataclysm.
Radically changing the stat set and skill names.
Keeping the system's worst feature when they threw out everything else (Universal World Profiles).
Re-stating all the core gear three times. In erratta and supplements.
Too many alternate settings in the core book leaving all of them looking flat and undeveloped.
Leaving setting development for some eventuallity that won't come before the new edition.
Changing the basic technical assumptions of the setting even if it was kinda dumb that you used fuel for ftl instead of maneuvering.
T4 really destroyed my opinion of hardcore fans and is one of the reasons I don't think a new edition will be accepted by the RM2 fanbase.
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TNE was T3 ... T4 (Marc Miller's Traveller) went back to it's original black-cover roots ...
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Yeah, I didn't really start hating Traveller fans until I saw how they acted when T4 came out.
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T3 as in Traveller the New Era?
Also, I only speak English and Bad English, well okay I only speak Bad English but I can read and write both.
I think your English is fine. I play enough online games where bad spelling and grammar errors are rampant that I honestly don't notice unless someone is really bad with English.
To be honest I never noticed it wasn't your first language. Not sure what that says about me or the general competency of most of us Americans with English but... *shrug* :)
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And may we not consider Harp as the natural evolution of RM ? It has both the simplicity and attractivity of good old RM2 along with some of RMSS-like standardized system.
After having played RM2 then RMSS for many years and having been almost exclusive on this, I have almost fell in love with Harp : simple, potent, adaptable... useable as is by novice players and tweaked as will by experienced gamers... I can't see how it can be improved.
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I have and like HARP just fine but honestly it is a bit to simplistic for my tastes and loses to much of what I love about RM to make it simpler. Though I admit I do like the HARP Magic System much better.
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DJ,
Authors Note: I am trying to do this as diplomatically as possible without breaking the Forum rules.
"Erased by author"
Take 2
I would recommend you taking a look at both books, reader opinions, as well as any official errata sites before you buy one or the other.
MDC
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Dark Mistress: I speak English and only English, it's just a joke referance to the movie The Fifth Element.
Markc:
If you're talking T4 and TNE I have most everything for both from when they were released. I sold a few pieces and loaned and lost a few when a friend was murdered but outside of that debacle I have owned every Traveller product since Megatraveller and all the core books and several supplements for Classic Traveller.
My most beaten up book is my Classic Traveller book and if I have to give up every last gaming item I own it will be the last to go.
If you're not talking Traveller...yeah, I need to stop coming here.
The war's over.
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Dark Mistress: I speak English and only English, it's just a joke referance to the movie The Fifth Element.
Ah i see that humor thing.... interesting. i shall study it.
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BTW, it seems, on the other hand, that it's rational to keep the three descendents of RM2 as official current systems, IMHO. ICE now has her own printer, and can control the number of books to be published for each system, I guess. And there's gamers' demand from each of the three "realms" (ha, ha). RMC/X has just (re-)started to walk on its new road with the two cousins(niblings?), and you know, classic is like Janus, it has always two faces, new as well as old at the same time.
I'd like to have fun with three of them, somtimes hybridly and somtimes purely, for the time being, so as to have "my dream" ripen. ;)
Well, I'm gonna try to convert Magent and Dabbler for RMC/X, for my next step;D